How to discuss religion with believers?

[Drich]

here's where your confusion is in the conversion of mols to atoms. The point of the conversation was to witness God Change air to gold on a atomic level, so rather than convert I used the atomic weight of the atoms themselves. So to make a ton of gold even at a 7:1 ratio (your numbers not mine) you need 7 tons of air, as by your numbers gold is 7 times heavier than air. 

The point is it takes a larger than a 1:1 exchange to make gold from air. you will need way way more air molecules of air to make one u of gold. so if you had a ton of air in your house you are 6 tons short of making one ton of gold using your numbers.

You guys kill me. you make yourself look stupid for the sake of trying to show me up on a math issue when you miss the whole point of the problem, and screw up your own solution.

No, this is wrong. it is the *mass* that is important here, not the atoms. You may one atom of gold for about 7 molecules of air. But the mass of the two is the same. All that is required is to rearrange the protons and neutrons and convert a few protons to neutrons. The number of electrons will be correct.

---

Which is the number that polymath found. However, he too was incorrect, as what you both were comparing here are the moles, not the masses. What you have to understand is that a mole is just a way to number things: 14 balls of 1 gram are equal to 1 ball of 14 g. A mole represents that "14". This is the example I typically give to my students, which usually is effective:

Actually, if you look at my calculation, I used the masses, not the number of moles. The point is that I calculated the mass of a cubic meter of air and used that to determine the mass of the air in a house (approximately). I never actually used the 6.84 number.

if the mass is the same why is the weight different? because one has more atomic weight that the other albeit on atomic level consisting of no more than atomic particles, even if by density.. so where do those extra particles come from, how can air match the density of Gold even on the atomic level? more air. 

If it takes 200 if it takes subatomic particles to make one gold atom, and a whole molecule of air containing 3 atoms has a total number of say 50 particles then 4 molecules of air containing 12 atoms will be needed to create one atom of Gold.

My point is gold requires more than a 1:1 exchange if it were to be converted to gold. 

For example we can turn lead (or bismuth) into gold albeit in near microscopic quantities. how by putting the core element into an accelerator and shearing off neutrons, 

 Along with the four protons, the collision-induced reactions had removed anywhere from six to 15 neutrons, producing a range of gold isotopes from gold 190 (79 protons and 111 neutrons) to gold 199 (79 protons, 120 neutrons), the researchers reported in the March 1981 issue of Physical Review C.

I know you guys want to talk in mols of Gas but the reason I have been speaking of atoms is because the only changes we have ever made have been on this level. I know it is easier for you to speak and assume conversions rates in moles but again this is not the topic. the 'proof of god being discussed is to witness God changing air into gold on a atomic level.

We have done this! But when we did we had to take a heavier than gold element and knock mass off the core material to reduce it down to a range of 190u to 199u where as 196u is considered pure gold. To obtain this same atomic mass from a starting point of air the heaviest/most easily neutron accepting element would have to be isolated and it be forced to take on more mass (from 15 or 16 u) to gain 184u in atomic mass which would demand far more of the core material in volume than would yield gold.

Look at the article below when we successfully  changed bismuth to gold a large core of bismuth was used and even so we only got atoms of gold in return.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-lead-can-be-turned-into-gold/

You can not tell me if we used air instead of the heavier than gold element bismuth, it would be a 1:1 exchange air to gold.