How to discuss religion with believers?

[polymath257]

again the reason we are discussing individual atoms is because it is on the atomic level that we/man have produced gold, not in grams or mols or anything else you have tried to use in your theoretical conversion they had to count atoms.. not only that they had to extend their definition of gold to include anything with a atomic weight of 190 to 200 which again the gold standard being 196.  The way they did this was the took a far more dense material in a much larger quantity (several grams) and bombarded it with helium atoms in a closed circuit super collider.. when the helium smashed into the bismuth it was obliterated. other times when the atomswhere slightly off center the bismuth was cut in to 1/3s or lost 1/2 of it mass and made something else. but when the helium just winged the bismuth and only remove 4 to 6 neutrons guess what. there was gold made, but it was not the 1:1 ratio your predictions made. it was not even a 1:90, out of several grams.. The gold that was made was in the 10's not 10's of thousands, but like 20 or 30 individual atoms of gold were made if again you count the atomic weight of anything with the atomic weight of 190 to 200 gold. which is a crazy exchange rate.

OK, but that is only because of our inability to aim correctly. In the reactions that worked, it was one atom of bismuth that gave rise to one atom of gold when hit by a helium nucleus. There were some protons and neutrons left over.

I simply stuck to my guns and explained how this would not be the 1:1 gold gathering event you thought it to be. You tried to red herring this whole thing and top shelf the conversation by using all manner of things you knew a 4th grade educated man could just know nothing about. Then I started reeling you in sprinkling in some real world apps, then you countered with oh, well you are using the wrong standard to measure out base material to gold and went on and on like a good teacher instructing his new project to the dark side of alchemy (joke douche I know it is not alchemy), then I got you up to the boat and smash! there go those brains all over my big ass boat and here comes the gaff and in you go to the cooler! when i show all your speculation was indeed faith based nonsense your tutelage in showing me atomic change was far too small of a measure to observe your process. I did this by referring back to the second day's research that showed all your huff and puff was pomp and fluff. because we have done what you are suggesting only God can do.  and what's yet? it is a train wreck. meaning out of grams of the base material atoms of gold were made.

OK, so let's make this easy. Air is made from a mixture of primarily molecules of nitrogen and oxygen. Both molecules have two atoms of the respective type: a molecule of nitrogen as two atoms of nitrogen and a molecule of oxygen has two atoms of oxygen. Air also has molecules of carbon dioxide (two atoms of oxygen and one of carbon) and water (two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen), but these are in much smaller amounts.

An atom of nitrogen has 7 protons, 7 neutrons, and 7 electrons. An atom of oxygen has 8 protons, 8 neutrons, and 8 electrons. So, an atom of nitrogen has an atomic mass of 14 amu and an atom of oxygen has an atomic mass of 16 amu (the mass of the electrons is very small)--the protons and neutrons each have a mass of about 1 amu).

This means that a molecule of nitrogen has a total of 14 protons, 14 neutrons, and 14 electrons with a total mass of 28 amu. Notice that the mass and the total number of protons and neutrons is the same. Similarly, an oxygen molecule has 16 protons, 16 neutrons, and 16 electrons with a combined mass of 32 amu. because of the relative amounts of nitrogen and oxygen in the air, the average mass of a molecule in the air is 29 amu, which corresponds to an average of 29 protons or neutrons per molecule.

A standard atom of gold (there are several different isotopes) has 79 protons and 118 neutrons, for a combined atomic mass of 197.

No, now, how would you make an atom of gold? Well, the first thing to notice is that protons and neutrons convert between themselves fairly easily in nuclear reactions and the electrons are mostly irrelevant.


So, we have to put 197 nucleons (protons or neutrons) together where each molecule of air supplies 29 nucleons. That means that we need about 197/29=6.8 molecules of air for each atom of gold.

But, and this is crucial, those 6.8 molecules of air have the same mass as that one molecule of gold. So, while the 6.8 molecules of air form one atom of gold (a 6.8:1 ratio), the *masses* are the same. It takes the same mass of air molecules to make a certain mass of gold molecules.

So, to make 1 ton of gold would require 1 ton of air. The masses will be the same.

But, air and gold have different densities, which means that a ton of air will have a much larger volume than a ton of gold, even though the masses are the same. For gold, that ton would have a volume of about 50 liters. For air, that same ton would have a volume of about 770,000 liters.

Again, the masses are the same, mainly because they have the same number of nucleons. But the volumes are very different because the density of air is much smaller than that of gold.