How to discuss religion with believers?

[Drich]

Do you know what a particle accelerater is? I'm gonna piss you off and tell you any way. In cern where the biggest accelerator is located it is a huge hoop made up of many segments and each segment contains an electromagnetic 'booster' not imagine a 1000 segments each able to boost anything in the segment a little faster than the boost before and so on and so one in a closed loop circuit. 

So what do they boost? the boost helium and generally they turn it up to nearly the speed of light. meaning the helium atoms  are soring through this huge cose loop zipping about at or near the speed of light then normally the introduce other atoms to split the bonds between electrons netrons and positrons. 

So this is how they made gold from bismuth a lead like substance. They took grams of bismuth and bombarded it with trillions upon trillions of helium atoms going near the speed of light. The fission you say has to happen was not the goal here. They used the helium atoms like a bullets. they shot the static bismuth but not ever atom of helium that hit an atom of bismuth was turned to gold. some who hit head on obliterated the bismuth and it was turned into atom of far less mass, >100u  while others were just winged which left they with an atomic weight of 200+ u some where hit off center and made 175u.. The only thing counted as gold was any atoms that where between 190u and 200u with the gold atomic standard being 196u.

Do you understand? yes energy was applied and atomic changes where made but not to a 1:1 ratio. again grams were used to creat just atoms with lots and lots of by product that was far lighter than gold or far heavier. 

Do you understand my side of the arguement? can you explain it back to me and I will do the same so at least we know each other knows what the other is saying.

Yes, I understand. You make several basic errors. First, the fission is, precisely, the point of trying to turn bismuth (not helium) into gold. The bismuth has 83 protons and 209-83=126 neutrons. The helium has 2 protons and 2 neutrons. When the helium hits the bismuth, it knocks some of those protons and neutrons out and the remaining nucleus of gold has 79 protons and 197-79=118 neutrons. The other 6 protons and 10 neutrons still exist and are 'fragments'. But there is still a 1:1 ratio of mass before and after the collision.

And, more to the point, an omnipotent designer with full control would not need the helium and could just take the required number of protons and neutrons out of the bismuth to give an atom of gold. Furthermore, any excess could be used to make *further* atoms of gold with no waste (like the human experiments had).

So, the ideal situation, which would be fully possible in an omnipotent deity, would be an exact 1:1 ratio of masses of bismuth (or any other element) and the resulting gold.

says who? God describes himself as the alpha and omega the begining and end of all things. meaning he is only obligated to his will want and desire. that is what true omnipotents looks like, not some foolish idea that God must perform to the peak of what that defination means to you but rather He does what He wants to. If God decides to use a proton accelerator to turn bismuth into gold then what in the term alpha and omega prevents him from doing so?

Again being alpha and omega or truly all powerful is doing what you want to do not to be tied to some idea that one must always put 1000% pure power into everything and always come out with the purest most efficient way of doing things. That is what alpha and omega means it is the absolute power to do as much or as little as one wants.

For example can an alpha and omega God create a rock so big he can not lift it? Yes if he wants to and no if he does not.

can god create a triangle who's angles do not add up to 180* for an alpha and omega yes if he wants to and no if he does not

Can god create gold for another substance at a 1:1 ratio, again yes if he wants to and no he does not.

My only point in all of this is that we know how to create gold from other materials and no it is not a 1:1 exchange. not even close. and since gold does not currently condense out of thin air as a natural process and if we can only use air to facilitate such change then air not only becomes the medium of change it also becomes the fuel god has to facilitate change. again as you all pointed out it would need some sort of fission to make this work. my only point in all of this is how much air does it take to create the fission necessary to facilitate a 1:1 air exchange?

Where you two dunder heads fail is you assume omnipotent God just magics air into gold, and I'm pointing out there maybe a cost like with the bismuth as God is not obligated to do things your way.