RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 30, 2019 at 7:31 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 8:35 am by Acrobat.)
(January 29, 2019 at 11:43 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: b-mine
Here's where you're fucking the pooch.
You are supplying deontological claims, you...you are not establishing that or how reality provides them. This is old hat in moral philosophy, the problem was articulated way back in 1739 by David Hume and then reformulated by G.E. Moore in 1903.
I’m not providing a how. I’m telling you there’s a cup in front of us, I’m not trying to explain how the cup got there.
I am claiming, that the moral ought, I ought to do good, I ought not torture innocent babies just for fun, exists like brute facts. I see them as clearly as I see the cup in front of me.
Quote:It does seem to be the case that every ought is derived from the conjunction of at least one evaluative premise (sometimes spoken but often silent) which may not itself be a fact even if the preceding claim is a moral fact (assuming there are moral facts).
And I am, the ought here is a fact. It’s interesting that you choose to say it “may not” be a fact itself, as opposed to “it’s not a fact”. It suggest to me that you’re not in complete denial here.
Quote:A secular morality needs only to establish why we might have the goal of being good..for example. A religious morality must establish that their god exists to extort it's followers to be good (or create them to be so inclined).
No I don’t need to establish God, or any of my other religious belief. As far as you or anyone here need to be concerned, I’m just a person who believes reality possess moral goal and aims. That we ought to be good is a brute fact of reality.
Quote:If the religious moralities claims turn out to be true - the secular moralities claims are no less true on account of that, and the claims stand in competition and without need of reference to a god. The realist deck is heavily stacked against religious morality.
Good, then I don’t need to argue for the existence of God, or the validity of any of my other religious beliefs, the supernatural etc… and we can stick to arguing about whether reality posses moral aims or goals. Regardless of whether you’re not sure what the relationship between the existence of these things, have to do with God.