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Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm
I am taking a couple religion classes and we had an interesting discussion in class - check this out guys
Jesus was not the messiah, and the New Testament is false. God doesn't go back on his word, doesn't change, else He's not God, or not a god worth bothering with. The whole virgin birth/nativity story is one of the most blatant and (should be) obvious proofs that the NT is the child of previous pagan myths, and not of Judaism.
And it doesn't end with the "immaculate conception". For the NT to be true, God would have to have lied about a lot of things, of which I list only a few here:
- He said in Numbers 23:19 that He is not a man. Because He also never changes (Malachi 3:6), He will never become a man, or come in man's flesh. And Numbers 23:19 is not temporal. Since God is eternal, and his word and promises are eternal, then if He ever did become a man, His word in Numbers 23:19 would be false, and that can never be.
- God condemns human sacrifice as an abomination to Him, and as totally unacceptable sacrifices (Deut. 12:31; 18:9-12; 2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Psalms 106:37-38; Jeremiah 7:31). The NT doesn't teach that Jesus was a ram, a goat or lamb. And, being a circumcised Jewish man, and having been beaten, whipped and pierced with thorns, he was not unblemished, but was physically mutilated. That's also an unacceptable sacrifice beyond the repulsiveness of sacrificing a human.
- God tells us that no man can pay the death penalty for another (Deut. 24:16; Ezekiel 18:20, 22).
I always thought personally the OT contradicted the NT....but christians alway told me "omg they are all the word of god1! - u just haz no faith and arent saved!!" cool story i guess
I really feel for Joseph, must have been pretty awkard waiting on the couch while god banged his wife..."are u done yet god??" -"stfu joseph"
I always felt bad for him, "the virgin mary - thats my story and I'm sticking to it!"
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 23, 2013 at 8:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2013 at 8:58 pm by ThatMuslimGuy2.)
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (Quran 5:75).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" ( Quran 19:30-35).
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (Quran 5:116-117).
Torah: "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Bible: Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; (Mark 12:29)
Quran: And your God is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. (Quran 2:163)
‘I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. ‘You shall have no other gods before Me. (Deuteronomy 5:6-7)
Allah says in the Qur'an:
ادْعُ إِلَىٰ سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ ۖ وَجَادِلْهُمْ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنْ ضَلَّ عَنْ سَبِيلِهِ ۖ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ
"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided." [Surah 16:125]
Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said: “The most complete in faith are those best in their character, those who are easy to socialise with, and those who get along with others and others get along with them. There is no good in the one who cannot get along with others and others cannot get along with him.” -Tirmidhi
Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6307:
'Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “Truth leads one to Paradise and virtue leads one to Paradise and the person tells the truth until he is recorded as truthful, and lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell, and the person tells a lie until he is recorded as a liar.”
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 23, 2013 at 9:50 pm
(March 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm)Jextin Wrote: Jesus was not the messiah, and the New Testament is false. God doesn't go back on his word, doesn't change, else He's not God, or not a god worth bothering with. The whole virgin birth/nativity story is one of the most blatant and (should be) obvious proofs that the NT is the child of previous pagan myths, and not of Judaism.
You could've knocked me over with a feather, dude.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 24, 2013 at 10:28 am
Yeah ya know its funny, I went to discuss this at a Christian Forum, and I got banned because their biggest rule on the site is that you aren't allowed to use verses from the bible to disprove Christ.
Go figure O.o
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 24, 2013 at 10:46 am
(March 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm)Jextin Wrote: I am taking a couple religion classes and we had an interesting discussion in class - check this out guys
Jesus was not the messiah, and the New Testament is false. God doesn't go back on his word, doesn't change, else He's not God, or not a god worth bothering with. The whole virgin birth/nativity story is one of the most blatant and (should be) obvious proofs that the NT is the child of previous pagan myths, and not of Judaism.
And it doesn't end with the "immaculate conception". For the NT to be true, God would have to have lied about a lot of things, of which I list only a few here:
- He said in Numbers 23:19 that He is not a man. Because He also never changes (Malachi 3:6), He will never become a man, or come in man's flesh. And Numbers 23:19 is not temporal. Since God is eternal, and his word and promises are eternal, then if He ever did become a man, His word in Numbers 23:19 would be false, and that can never be.
- God condemns human sacrifice as an abomination to Him, and as totally unacceptable sacrifices (Deut. 12:31; 18:9-12; 2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Psalms 106:37-38; Jeremiah 7:31). The NT doesn't teach that Jesus was a ram, a goat or lamb. And, being a circumcised Jewish man, and having been beaten, whipped and pierced with thorns, he was not unblemished, but was physically mutilated. That's also an unacceptable sacrifice beyond the repulsiveness of sacrificing a human.
- God tells us that no man can pay the death penalty for another (Deut. 24:16; Ezekiel 18:20, 22).
I always thought personally the OT contradicted the NT....but christians alway told me "omg they are all the word of god1! - u just haz no faith and arent saved!!" cool story i guess
I really feel for Joseph, must have been pretty awkard waiting on the couch while god banged his wife..."are u done yet god??" -"stfu joseph"
I always felt bad for him, "the virgin mary - thats my story and I'm sticking to it!"
Jesus' real name says he wasn't the savior too.
.
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Re: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 24, 2013 at 10:56 am
Can I just point out that the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception, so she could be born without sin, and not Jesus's magical virgin conception.
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 24, 2013 at 12:14 pm
really?
it doesn't take a dope to see that jesus was jew.
Paul is the one that made him something he is not.
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RE: Even the bible says Jesus wasn't the savior!
March 25, 2013 at 1:57 am
(March 24, 2013 at 10:56 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Can I just point out that the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception, so she could be born without sin, and not Jesus's magical virgin conception. Of course, if an all-powerful god could do that for one person, couldn't he have done that for everyone? Have us all be born innocent, rather than tainted by the sins of our ancestors...which is the primary reason I abandoned Christianity long before abandoning theism as a whole.
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