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Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
#24
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
(February 3, 2019 at 3:51 pm)mrj Wrote: i raised this issue on a Catholic forum recently and I was surprised how little it bothered people.  I claim that Catholicism and Evolution are not compatible, based on the following: 

Consider that it is a fundamental tenant of Christianity that ALL human beings, every one alive today, MUST trace their linage back to a single man (or woman) that committed the grave sin of rejecting God.  If you think this was Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, fine - you don't believe in Evolution and you can downgrade to other discussions on the topic. However, the general consensus of science-based Christians (including Cardinal Ratzinger) is that, if you want to rationalize evolution with Christian dogma, you must assume that ONE human being (and only one), at some time in our past, was 'injected' with a soul.  This was the first human being with a soul, perhaps 50,000 years ago (or 6,000 who knows).  This soul-endowed human then rejected God in some manner, committing the first sin, and henceforth all his progeny carry that burden forward throughout all of history.  Hence the need for salvation, and Jesus and the Resurrection, and so forth.  I have talked with many Catholics on this and this is not in dispute.  This is how you rationalize evolution with Christian dogma.

So...here was my point:   If you subscribe to the above Christian rationalization of Christianity, you MUST accept the following:

1) There was a large population of "soulless" people
2) The one person with a soul had parents that had no souls, and perhaps siblings with no souls
3) The one person lived in a world filled with contemporary people that had no souls
4) All genetic lines EXCEPT the one with the souled person died out, so for generations, many people continued to live and be born as human beings without souls until their lines all died.

The above is not my opinion.  This is what you MUST believe if you rationalize Christianity and Evolution.  This is foundation, and the essence of salvation.
Am I missing something?  In many ways I respect those that are Creationists, as at least that position is logically consistent.

One thing that has bothered me with religion is not so much that it can be false, but what you MUST accept if it were true.
Boy oh boy have you come to the right place!


In essence I have a hypothesis that starts with genesis 1 and reads all the way through gen 2:4 as one chapter. meaning the 7 day account does not end where gen 1 end but ends on the close of the seventh day. in this 7 day creation you have el-ohim/father God doing all of the creating including man made in his image on day 6.

Now if you start chapter 2 on verse 4 it clearly states while Elohim was creating the seven days these following events took place by the hand of Ywhw after dry land but before there was trees as it had not rained yet.

Meaning all of gen 2:4 forward happened between day 3 and day 4. So Ywhw or "the word" or Jesus created the garden and everything in it between day three and day 4 of the over all creation. in doing so the garden was a perfect picture of everything the world would eventually evolve into including adam the first man (before the father's day 6 man) Adam was crested by Christ and was breathed into him a living soul. As eve was created from adam I would also assume but is not necessary as the bible is silent on the matter.

Now Adam and eve are in the garden and there is no time line from the end of chapter 2 and the beginning of chapter 3 the fall. this could have been a day month year 100 years or 100s of bazillion years evolution needed to take place.

We do know or can count back using the geologies to how long since the fall, and according to the yec's it was about 6000 years ago where man with a soul met the descendants of 'monkeys' (i oly say that to mock the godless monkey descendants little. ) which explains who adam's children married where the city of nod came from and just about ever other paradox or objection we have in the creation narrative. (where adam and eve were the oly two people on the planet at the fall of man. the bible never says that. in fact the opposite would be indicated.
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Messages In This Thread
Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 3:51 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 4:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 5:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 6:22 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 5:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 4, 2019 at 12:17 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 6:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 6:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 9:00 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - February 3, 2019 at 11:27 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 3, 2019 at 7:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 9:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 10:02 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 11:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 7:54 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:15 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by snowtracks - February 4, 2019 at 1:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 4, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 5, 2019 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 6, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 1:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 7, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:56 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 9:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Pat Mustard - February 6, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 6, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 2:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 2:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 12, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 11:34 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 12:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 1:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 14, 2019 at 12:18 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 10:46 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 20, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 20, 2019 at 9:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 7:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 9:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 1:12 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 26, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 10:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 28, 2019 at 10:29 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 4:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:55 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 1, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 2:46 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 2:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 4:53 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 10:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 11:57 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 26, 2019 at 5:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 6:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 1:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by 900ft j - February 25, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:59 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 26, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 26, 2019 at 6:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 10:31 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 28, 2019 at 11:40 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 27, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 28, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:35 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 1:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 4:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 7, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 5:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:23 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 10:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 11:32 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 9, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 9:00 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:52 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:16 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 1:11 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:08 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 9:48 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 11:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 12, 2019 at 10:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 14, 2019 at 3:10 pm

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