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Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 6, 2017 at 7:20 pm by Jehanne.)
The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here. Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination". Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate"). Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation. Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...
Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.
This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 7:51 pm
[stepping in]
I think all the christers (who aren't apostates or heretics) will agree anything homo will counteract totally any Salvation points previously accrued.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 8:06 pm
You can't lose what you never had.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 8:12 pm
and if they really were saved, they would be unable to even contemplate committing some of the more depraved sins
"oh yeah, I'm totally on board with Jesus! Praise Jesus! I'll admit, I'm plagued with thoughts of pouring crude oil on baby seals and making them eat asbestos insulation and then setting them on fire with an atomic reactor, and except for a couple of slips, I'm resisting those urges!!"
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 8:13 pm
I think it's healthier and safer for all of us if believers think that they can lose their salvation. More of an incentive to behave in the real world.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm
Pa-lease, like they ever had any anyway. Stop fuckin with their heads.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 10:08 pm
I've a pretty good idea I've no idea what the question is. To lose one's salvation? That's easy enough; 'Holy ghost', you raped your own mother! That should do it.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 6, 2017 at 11:51 pm
(July 6, 2017 at 8:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You can't lose what you never had.
Pretty much this. To lose a thing, first you'd have to have it .. and before that it should actually be a thing. Salvation is not.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 7, 2017 at 2:33 am
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2017 at 2:34 am by Huggy Bear.)
(July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here. Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination". Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate"). Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation. Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...
Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.
This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.
The simple answer to your question of "Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?" is both yes and no.
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RE: Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?
July 7, 2017 at 3:22 am
(July 7, 2017 at 2:33 am)Huggy74 Wrote: (July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here. Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination". Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate"). Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation. Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...
Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.
This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.
The simple answer to your question of "Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation?" is both yes and no.
A typical theological answer to a yes/no question.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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