Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 4, 2025, 6:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
#33
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
(February 3, 2019 at 10:02 pm)Yonadav Wrote:
(February 3, 2019 at 9:29 pm)wyzas Wrote: gods spark, is that what they're calling it now?

More literally it would be 'the breath of G-d'.  This discussion interested me because it appears that the Catholics reconciled their beliefs with evolution by lifting from the Jewish tradition. Long, long before Charles Darwin came along, the Sages of the Talmud discussed the generations before Adam. Adam was the first man to have the Breath of G-d breathed into him.

Yes, the Christian rationalization of Evolution is similar to the Jewish concept of 'God breathing into Adam' with others alive.
However, Christianity has the interesting property of Original Sin, meaning that everyone alive today (and at the time of Jesus) was a direct descendant of this "Adam".  No one else was given a soul unless they have this Adam in the ancestry.

My point is that such a rationalization (one human in our past gets a soul, no one else, and we are all descended from him) is not satisfying.  You MUST believe this (or be a Creationist).  Salvation is a core tenant of Christianity.  It is not optional.  It may be THE core tenant.

Therefore, you MUST accept that many people lived on this planet for generations without souls.  Y Chromosome Adam is estimate to have lived  200,000 years ago.  So, if you want to believe in Evolution and be a Christian, God injected the first soul into a human ~200,000 or earlier.   

And, because the population, must have been, minimally, several tens of thousand at the time, there were vast numbers of people that lived for generations, including relatives of Adam (his parents of course) without souls.

This is not optional, like, say, Noah's ark, nativity, or similar.  The above is an essential rationalization of Christianity and Science.  Either accept it, or be a Creationist.

As someone that was raised as a Christian, and has tried to rationalize Christianity with science, the above really bothers me.  You can wiggle around almost everything else.  But the above is essential.  Really hard to accept.

I've asked Christians about this and most ignore it because they don't want to talk about it, others say that's why you can't believe in Evolution at all, and then there are the rare few that say yes, there were many, many soul-less people alive for generation after generation until, over time, interbreeding created a fully souled world, and then Jesus saved them all.  Really strange.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 3:51 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 4:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 5:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 6:22 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 5:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 4, 2019 at 12:17 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 6:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 6:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 9:00 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - February 3, 2019 at 11:27 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 3, 2019 at 7:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 9:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 10:02 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 11:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 7:54 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:15 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by snowtracks - February 4, 2019 at 1:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 4, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 5, 2019 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 6, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 1:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 7, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:56 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 9:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Pat Mustard - February 6, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 6, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 2:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 2:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 12, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 11:34 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 12:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 1:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 14, 2019 at 12:18 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 10:46 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 20, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 20, 2019 at 9:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 7:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 9:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 1:12 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 26, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 10:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 28, 2019 at 10:29 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 4:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:55 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 1, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 2:46 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 2:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 4:53 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 10:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 11:57 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 26, 2019 at 5:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 6:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 1:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by 900ft j - February 25, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:59 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 26, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 26, 2019 at 6:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 10:31 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 28, 2019 at 11:40 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 27, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 28, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:35 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 1:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 4:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 7, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 5:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:23 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 10:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 11:32 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 9, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 9:00 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:52 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:16 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 1:11 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:08 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 9:48 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 11:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 12, 2019 at 10:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 14, 2019 at 3:10 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  On the subject of Hell and Salvation Alternatehistory95 278 45727 March 10, 2019 at 12:09 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Lie Known as "Salvation" Haipule 59 11973 June 12, 2018 at 3:35 am
Last Post: Haipule
  There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven Drich 45 16632 July 31, 2017 at 9:27 am
Last Post: Drich
  Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation? Jehanne 130 38594 July 26, 2017 at 10:25 am
Last Post: drfuzzy
  It's Always Sunny - evolution versus Christianity LadyForCamus 201 60411 February 27, 2016 at 1:19 pm
Last Post: Nihilist Virus
  Orthodox Christianity is Best Christianity! Annoyingbutnicetheist 30 8983 January 26, 2016 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Are Evolution and Christianity Completely Incompatible? SamS 93 24426 July 15, 2015 at 11:15 pm
Last Post: Pyrrho
  Snake Salvation Spooky 39 11532 January 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  'Snake Salvation' Pastor Dies Hilariously Ironic Death Ryantology 64 19984 February 25, 2014 at 10:01 am
Last Post: truthBtold
  Christianity vs Gnostic Christianity themonkeyman 12 9445 December 26, 2013 at 11:00 am
Last Post: pineapplebunnybounce



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)