Surreal day on the job...more of the same on the way.

[Godscreated]

Ah, Lucifer was the greatest of the angels, he even walked in the Garden of Eden with God.

Ah, maybe in the Bible according to Godscreated, but in the rest of the Bibles Satan is mentioned first time in Zechariah and First Chronicles where Satan is depicted as a member of God's court whose basic duty is to accuse human beings before God. He is not presented at this point as an enemy of God or as a leader of evil, demonic forces. (Zech. 3:1–2; and 1 Chron. 21:1)

Shows how little you know about the scriptures, copy and paste is your mode. Lucifer and Satan are the same beings and he was first mentioned in Genesis 3.

The heaven and earth that is mention in Matthew's passage is this planet and it's atmosphere, and there is the possibility it could be all of the universe.

I told you that they used the same word for all "heavens". Also people at that time did not have a notion of the atmosphere and they thought that the heaven above stretches indefinitely. Therefore they also didn't know about the universe or what the stars were. Not until 17th century when Evangelista Torricelli discovered air pressure did people realize that the heaven is not infinite because air pressure gets weaker with altitude until it disappears and that's how the universe was discovered. And just before Torricelli discovered that, England's bishop Francis Godwin wrote a novel "The Man in the Moone" in which a man flies to the Moon riding on a pack of geese tied to a carriage, because people thought that the atmosphere simply continues forever and writers of the Bible were no better. So they did not know of other heavens, they did not know of the universe, did not know that stars were Suns and they did not know of parallel dimensions - which is even today just a concept in SF stories.
Therefore people that wrote the Bible thought that God and all the saints lives in the heaven above which is layered in seven layers (have you ever heard of a Christian TV show called "7th Heaven"?). You can see that, for instance, when Paul claims he knows a guy who "was taken as far up as the third heaven," (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) -- So no other dimensions![/quote]

 I never said they knew of or even mentioned other dimensions, that's is an idea drawn from what is in the scriptures because of today's knowledge. All anyone had to do was scale Mt. Ararat and know that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom and Ararat was well within reach of Jerusalem. Like I said it could mean the entire universe which I believe it is, so it doesn't matter what they knew at the time now does it. The sun thing is about as stupid a thing as could be said, they were called stars then as they are know. They may not have known they were like our sun but then that doesn't matter either because they believed the entire universe that they knew about was going to be destroyed.

GC