Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 22, 2025, 10:24 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Serious] Good vs Evil
#62
RE: Good vs Evil
(May 11, 2019 at 9:24 pm)tackattack Wrote:
(May 10, 2019 at 12:48 pm)Smaug Wrote: What really disturbs me is Religion's constant claims for morality. Not only that moral behaviour existed before modern man but also to me morality is something humans earned at a very high price. Saying that God handed down moral principles is an insult against the memory of all those who fought, suffered and lost their lives so our society could become a better place.

Most people can intuit an absolute objective evil. Humans haven't earned morality, they've used it (justly and unjustly) for position and poorly structure the chaos around us into some form of stable society.  
Let me ask you this, if dominance hierarchies existed long before there were trees in other species then dominance hierarchies in societies aren't man made. They could be an evolved trait, an emergent trait, inherited trait, evolutionary trait.. and many more reasons. What makes you think morality didn't exist before the creation of trees as well?  What if these things we think, are human constructs are just our collective overall simplification for something long before we existed. As morality is an agent on consciousness, as we see it, and if morality existed axiomatically (as certain hierarchical structures and universal constants) why wouldn't there be an objective morality, at least to humanity, as a whole?
Humans certainly did earn morality. I doubt that you'd argue that humans have quite the same moral behaviour as, say, lions or alligators. It wasn't from scratch of course - if you understood it that way then you got it wrong. Read my long post above. I don't feel like re-typing things over and over again.

Speaking of people able to intuit 'absolute objective evil', this adds nothing to your arguement. Claims for objectivity have to be supported by logic and facts and not by appeal to masses. For many people blapshemy is an 'absolute objective evil' but it's neither objective nor even universal as clearly seen by this forums. And although there are deeds that are objectively harmful to the society and its members and are thus more or less universally regarded as evil this has nothing to do with Religion's claims for morality.

Regarding your second arguement, you have to specify what you mean under 'dominance hierarchies'. It is commonly understood as something that appears in collectives of social animals. In this respect it's meaningless to talk about 'dominance hierarchies' between the bodies of Solar system or in a Petri dish. Same goes for moral behaviour. For example, a stone does not have any behaviour at all, let alone moral one. Stating otherwise will be misuse of terms. Molecular interactions are not 'moral behaviour' although the latter is one of the results of the former.

Anyway, all this in no ways supports Religion's claims for morality.



Messages In This Thread
Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 4, 2019 at 6:53 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 4, 2019 at 7:12 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by energizer bunny - May 5, 2019 at 2:04 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 6, 2019 at 11:21 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by madog - May 6, 2019 at 11:29 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Brian37 - May 6, 2019 at 2:49 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 6, 2019 at 3:43 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 7, 2019 at 1:35 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 6, 2019 at 11:29 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 6, 2019 at 11:31 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 6, 2019 at 3:10 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Brian37 - May 6, 2019 at 11:41 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 6, 2019 at 2:48 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Chad32 - May 6, 2019 at 3:06 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 6, 2019 at 3:28 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by tackattack - May 6, 2019 at 3:30 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 6, 2019 at 4:00 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 6, 2019 at 4:10 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Alan V - May 7, 2019 at 10:14 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Brian37 - May 10, 2019 at 12:37 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 6, 2019 at 3:56 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by paulpablo - May 12, 2019 at 7:42 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 6, 2019 at 4:05 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 7, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 11:44 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 7, 2019 at 1:12 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Rhizomorph13 - May 6, 2019 at 10:23 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Alan V - May 7, 2019 at 9:29 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Chad32 - May 7, 2019 at 8:07 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 7, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Chad32 - May 7, 2019 at 1:31 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 9:23 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 9:40 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by vulcanlogician - May 7, 2019 at 1:06 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 1:37 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by vulcanlogician - May 8, 2019 at 8:31 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 9, 2019 at 9:13 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by vulcanlogician - May 9, 2019 at 10:48 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 10, 2019 at 9:37 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by vulcanlogician - May 10, 2019 at 2:18 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 10, 2019 at 3:01 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 12:40 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 7, 2019 at 12:59 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 7, 2019 at 3:09 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 8, 2019 at 10:36 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 8, 2019 at 12:55 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - May 9, 2019 at 8:59 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Silver - May 7, 2019 at 1:06 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by tackattack - May 7, 2019 at 6:23 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Amarok - May 7, 2019 at 6:39 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 8, 2019 at 6:34 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Losty - May 8, 2019 at 4:50 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Rhizomorph13 - May 8, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by AgnosAtheis - May 8, 2019 at 1:58 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 8, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Mister Agenda - May 10, 2019 at 10:42 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 10, 2019 at 11:19 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 10, 2019 at 12:48 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Alan V - May 10, 2019 at 4:39 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by tackattack - May 11, 2019 at 9:24 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 12, 2019 at 3:43 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2019 at 8:48 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2019 at 6:46 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Angrboda - May 12, 2019 at 8:39 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - June 3, 2019 at 1:33 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by WinterHold - May 14, 2019 at 4:21 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Smaug - May 14, 2019 at 7:09 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2019 at 7:29 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by onlinebiker - May 14, 2019 at 8:32 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by onlinebiker - May 14, 2019 at 10:50 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by onlinebiker - May 14, 2019 at 2:23 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by SlowCalculations - May 31, 2019 at 3:15 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by Acrobat - May 31, 2019 at 6:13 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2019 at 1:57 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Drich - June 10, 2019 at 9:59 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2019 at 11:11 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by SenseMaker007 - June 10, 2019 at 12:26 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Angrboda - June 21, 2019 at 4:03 pm
RE: Good vs Evil - by Lightbearer - March 8, 2021 at 4:16 am
RE: Good vs Evil - by The Valkyrie - March 8, 2021 at 4:33 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Evil God and anti-theodicy FrustratedFool 32 4999 August 21, 2023 at 9:28 am
Last Post: FrustratedFool
  Do people make evil? Interaktive 7 1210 August 8, 2022 at 2:11 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Atheism, Gnosticism & the Problem of Evil Seax 86 9740 April 7, 2021 at 9:25 pm
Last Post: Silver
  Bishop setting up group to fight off 'evil forces' and recite prayers of exorcism Marozz 14 3508 October 11, 2018 at 5:19 am
Last Post: OakTree500
  Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion WinterHold 124 26944 January 28, 2018 at 5:38 am
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Why the Texas shooting is not evil, based on the bible Face2face 56 19948 November 16, 2017 at 7:21 am
Last Post: Little Rik
  The forces of good and evil are related Silver 11 4343 October 2, 2017 at 9:30 pm
Last Post: Astonished
  The Problem of Evil combined with the problem of Free Will Aroura 163 54977 June 5, 2017 at 8:54 am
Last Post: Drich
  If God created all the good things around us then it means he created all EVIL too ErGingerbreadMandude 112 28345 March 3, 2017 at 9:53 am
Last Post: Harry Nevis
  This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden Greatest I am 17 4907 November 29, 2016 at 6:10 pm
Last Post: ApeNotKillApe



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)