Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 2, 2026, 11:30 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Neurosurgeon Provides Evidence Against Materialism
#30
RE: Neurosurgeon Provides Evidence Against Materialism
(June 13, 2019 at 5:36 pm)ColdComfort Wrote:
(June 13, 2019 at 12:08 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: The insight (at least potentially) is that the schema isn't expected to contain information on how it operates, only that information that would be useful to it;s operation.  You don't need to know what an individual neuron firing feels like, so you don't, and thus the schema necessarily wouldn't "feel like" a description of it's mechanical function.

I'm not sure what the point here is. I'm not aware of neurons firing: of course. I'm not aware of most of my body's functions. But instruments can measure them. Perhaps in time there will be instruments that will be able to measure brain activity that corresponds to every conscious experience. I'll concede the point for the purposes of this discussion. My experience of awareness or directing my attention to something is not the brain activity the authors have in mind. It is something quite different even though you may assert a causal connection.
The point was directly answering the question that you asked.  Yes, it feels different. Yes, it seems obvious.

Your experience of awareness or directing your attention to something is -exactly- the sort of brain activity the authors were referring to.  One of the novel features of AST is that it's the only (hopefully, just the first one day) mechanistic explanation of consciousness that claims to predict the disparity between what your brain is doing and what it feels like, as well as the seemingly obvious conclusion that you have some non physical stuff capable of apprehending physical stuff and engaging in a causal relationship with it.  

That said, I'm not asking you to accept that AST is the most accurate explanations. Only using it to challenge the assumption that observing that experience doesn't feel like a description of it's process has anything probative to add as to whether or not it actually is. Imagine a ghostly AST, that posits that the mechanism doing all of this is not the brain, but the soul. It would still posit that your soul awareness doesn't provide you with the information required to make your soul feeling an identical description of it's soul process. You might even posit, in a soul world, that you have some sort of mysterious other stuff, not soul stuff, capable of apprehending soul stuff and engaging in a causal relationship with it. It feels different, and it seems obvious.

Quote:Because the experiment demonstrates that the decision corresponds to the behaviour or almost always does. If you want to argue either that a decision is a physical thing or that decisions are determined by brain activity then the experiment is begging the question. " Non-physical essence" was the authors words not mine.

Does this really have anything to do with what I would want to argue?  You just told me it would demonstrate those other positions wrong.  Well, if that's so, then there would have to be some way to tell, in the experiment, whether a decision was made by a physical or non physical essence.  

How does the mere presence of a decision demonstrate this? How can we tell this by deciding to do the chicken dance?

It seems to me that you're only asserting something that both positions can agree to. That we can make decisions, and that our decisions can influence our actions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Neurosurgeon Provides Evidence Against Materialism - by The Grand Nudger - June 14, 2019 at 10:34 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  An Argument Against Determinism Disagreeable 32 5436 March 13, 2026 at 9:11 pm
Last Post: Disagreeable
  [Serious] An Argument Against Hedonistic Moral Realism SenseMaker007 25 7700 June 19, 2019 at 7:21 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Argument against Intelligent Design Jrouche 27 8458 June 2, 2019 at 5:04 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Best arguments for or against God's existence mcc1789 22 7268 May 22, 2019 at 9:16 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Argument Against God's Existence From God's Imperfect Choice Edwardo Piet 53 19146 June 4, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Objective Moral Values Argument AGAINST The Existence Of God Edwardo Piet 58 25930 May 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 29479 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  The argument against "evil", theists please come to the defense. Mystic 158 97654 December 29, 2017 at 7:21 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Testimony is Evidence RoadRunner79 588 228341 September 13, 2017 at 8:17 pm
Last Post: Astonished
  The Case Against Compatabilism Edwardo Piet 13 6180 May 19, 2017 at 7:16 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)