The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence

[Belacqua]

How about if I just disagree with what they said? The notion of necessary versus conditional existence is, I believe, a very bad philosophical mistake that does not, again, represent a useful division.

Do you have a reason for your disagreement? 

I don't see how it's bad to say that parents-->children is different from space-time-->helium. Those are just different relationships. The children continue after the parents are gone, the helium couldn't go on after space-time left. Why is that not just a fact? 

But, again, it is only the case because of the physical laws.

Yes, I've already agreed with you about this. The physical laws of nature are in place, and things operate according to them. How does this work against Aristotle's argument? 

Science studies the laws of nature. We have some idea of how they operate. Because they operate as they do, we get atoms and molecules and the sun and etc. None of this is in disagreement with Aristotle. 

And this seems to me to be badly incoherent.

Why?

No, that is merely definitional, not being prior. And, again, I think Ari and Thom are simply incoherent (in some matters) and counter to reality (in others). Their whole metaphysics is deeply flawed.

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The definition I'm using is that "prior," in this case, is not temporal. But if you don't want to say "prior" I'll use a different word. 

Space-time has to exist for hydrogen to exist. Hydrogen has to exist for the sun to exist. The sun has to exist for me to exist. It's easy enough to avoid the word "prior" if you want to reserve that only for temporal issues. 

To argue that Aristotle is wrong about this, you'd have to assert that hydrogen could continue to exist in the absence of space-time. This would break the laws of nature.

My parents 'caused' me, again, through physical laws.

That's very true. And even if your parents are gone, you may still exist.

So we're talking about something different. I'm talking about things that have to continue existing for you to continue existing. 

Again, I'm willing to change the terms if you want. Not "prior" or "cause," but maybe "necessary" and "allow the existence of." It would be the same.