Discrimination, oppression, and the War on Christianity

[tackattack]

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3. I'm not saying your atheist son can't play football because his teammates are Christians. However, if you see that they pray before meals and before a game and after a game, he should know they're Christians going into it, and I hope you've had a discussion about what that means for him. I consider some conformity the cost of socialization, and as a parent I would hope you wouldn't force him to join the group just so you can single out those Christian boys from the team or their coaches.

4.@Losty On the second point you make my case. I agree it was a horrible example because both of us agree that trans jokes, regardless of the audience are discriminatory and wrong. What we don't agree on is that saying a prayer publicly is wrong. How is saying a prayer with an audience discriminatory or wrong, exactly? I don't believe my right to my free speech ends if I am making others hurt or uncomfortable, otherwise it's not FREE speech. I believe there is a certain amount of discomfort in any social contract as it's a compromise and in compromises neither side gets all of what they want. I believe I am abusing my right to Free speech when I am intentionally saying something that hurts someone else.

Yea, are you kidding me? Lol. No, I wouldn’t force my son to join a sports team just so I could “single” out the entire team for being Christian. We actually really had this issue with his team and I just privately made the request to the coaches that they keep their prayers to themselves and don’t make it a group thing. They were very nice about it after I gently suggested that I would go to the directors of the organization if needed. I would never force my son to join anything he doesn’t want to join lol. My son wants to play football, football is not a religious activity, there is zero reason why he shouldn’t be allowed to join a team just because most of the other players are Christians. There’s also no reason why he shouldn’t be free from an adult asking him to join a prayer during football, that’s extremely inappropriate for an adult to discuss any religious matters with a child that he doesn’t know well enough to know their religious views and/or without permission from their parents.

Saying a prayer publicly is not wrong. I never said it was. (I personally have issues with praying over sporting events but that’s aside from the point) If you want to say it out loud at the grocery store that’s fine by me, some people might ask you not to and that would be up to the company how they deal with that. What is 100% wrong is to ask for a group prayer when you’re an adult and they’re children and when you’re a coach and they’re players and when you’re in a position of authority. In that case, it is wrong for you to even say your prayer out loud where everyone who wants to play football is forced to listen. You don’t have any rights to free speech within a sports organization anyway. Free speech is a person or community’s freedom to voice their opinions without government retaliation, censorship, or legal penalties. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything you want anywhere you want to anyone you want without consequences. The organization is well within their rights to not allow group prayer during sports events. Also, even if free speech did apply here, the Supreme Court has already ruled in favor of the rights of a captive audience outweighing the rights of an individual or group’s freedom of speech.

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Sounds like you handled it well, even with the unnecessary threat attached.
I understand that now (since 2007 I believe)it is not legal by the First Amendment. It does not guarantee the right to direct messages at people who will find them deeply hurtful, and who have no effective means of simply tuning them out. That coupled with the privilege of being in the majority and the historical organizational acceptance of the practice of prayer at this sporting event, and coupled with the fact no intention of being hurtful wasn't present, I didn't see it as wrong. Perhaps I find it most problematic that prayer in this legal context is something people would find hurtful or forced. I've never been part of a prayer that was hurtful or forced, public or private. If you've ever coached kids, you know they can tune out about anything in the 6 seconds that is a huddle and often do. Maybe a reprimand, to be PC, but not removed from coaching entirely to save face.

I believe in corporate prayer. I also believe in private prayer. Both have their uses. Neither should be for show, which wasn't the intent of the huddle prayer. Nowadays, I coach upwards sports when I coach. I don't think they'd have a problem with me choosing not to pray, as I wouldn't have a problem with someone choosing to pray or not to pray. The only difference is the expectation of God to be in the conversation and methods.

That's my overall point. While legally nowadays it's not acceptable legally to make someone uncomfortable in a captive situation like teaching. But where do you draw the line with someone's personal expression and their job duties? Do we fire teachers for wearing a cross necklace or carrying a Bible? My second point, being that of the main difference is the expectation of God in the methods, couldn't a parent reasonably forsee that there would be a prayer prior to the game, before their child joined?

I wasn't limiting or forcing his speech by direction. You might claim coercion through established normative behavior at best, which I admit. He probably felt out of place, from my doing. I catch the general gist that in today's modern PC times it is illegal to have a corporate prayer as a coach. What if I had asked the kids, "Does anyone here want to lead us in quick prayer?" Would that have been acceptable?