RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 22, 2019 at 10:36 pm
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2019 at 10:45 pm by polymath257.)
(July 22, 2019 at 1:50 pm)comet Wrote:(July 22, 2019 at 9:10 am)polymath257 Wrote: The heat is the random motion of the molecules, which are all made of quantum particles.
Everything there is is a property of such particles. The motion is a property.
What do you even mean when asking what something 'is'? Isn't knowing 'how to use it', meaning when and where to find it, when it shows up, and how it acts, aren't these *precisely* what it means to know 'what something is'?
You can equally well say we don't know what momentum is, or what spin is, or what charge is. Well, we seem to know enough to use these and describe in exquisite detail how these things operate.
I think asking anything past that is metaphysical BS.
thats it then. its bs to you. Before they knew what the atom was made up of it was metaphysical BS to you. To me it is not BS, its learning.
and no, knowing how to predict the out come is totally different than knowing where it comes and what it is. My wife knows a car and how they behave. she doesn't have clue to the parts that make it up.
maybe it might be better for us to put it in those terms for you. We don't know what the pieces are that make up energy (if there are pieces that is), or the fabric of space/time or gravity.
(July 22, 2019 at 12:16 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Actually it's not "random". The relative motions may be "random" but the temperature they are generally at, is not "random". They are either hotter or colder than another group of them. The energy of them can be determined. That is not "random".
Saying they are all quantum particles does not really do it.
Important characteristics of an atom, (which determines it's behavior) are above the quantum level.
this is actually way short of understanding. the quantum behavior of space/time determines exactly how the atom behaves. What you are talking about is how we can ignore the underlining quantum effects to do "chemistry" at our level. In most cases. But the discoveries we have made, ie materials and other technologies, are based precisely on quantum affects and relativity.
valance shell electrons, our everyday chemistry, only works in the quantum world.
I am so not sure why you are dismissing the fact that the standard model is based on quantum particles? what the problem for you? they are just the facts of the standard model?
why is that?
When you ask 'what something is made of', like energy, you are vasing your metaphysics on a classical image that is simply not appropriate for quantum mechanics. Energy is a *property* of particles, like momentum and spin. So to ask what energy is'made of' makes no more sense than to ask what momentum is 'made of' or what spi is 'made of'.
Both are *properties*, which means ways of interaction between different particles. So, for example, charge determines the strength of the interaction with photons (and thereby via the EM force). Mass is a proerty that describes the strength of interaction via gravity. Energy is a property that describes certain dynamical properties, like momentum. In fact, energy is the fourth component of the energy-momentum 4-vector.
I would disagree that your wife knows how the car behaves. She might know how it behaves in some very limited set of circumstances, but she would not in more extreme cases. The difference is that our desriptions work in every circumstance we have ever tested (and that is the criterion). If those particles are truly fundamental (and if they are not, just apply these comments to those that are), then they are not made of something else and all is just the properties.
Next, the properties that are 'above the atom' are usually statistical averages of those of the individual atoms. This is certainly the case for temperature, pressure, entropy, and other thermodynamic properties.
(July 22, 2019 at 12:16 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:(July 22, 2019 at 9:10 am)polymath257 Wrote: The heat is the random motion of the molecules, which are all made of quantum particles.Actually it's not "random". The relative motions may be "random" but the temperature they are generally at, is not "random". They are either hotter or colder than another group of them. The energy of them can be determined. That is not "random".
Saying they are all quantum particles does not really do it.
Important characteristics of an atom, (which determines it's behavior) are above the quantum level.
Yes, saying they are quantum particles with certain properties *does* 'do it'. The temperature is the average kinetic energy of the atoms or molecules of the sample. Being hotter or colder simply means having a higher or lower average KE. There are no *fundamental* properties above the atom: all are *derived* properties from the characteristics of the underlying quantum particles and how they interact.
(July 22, 2019 at 3:33 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: I'm not dismissing that. There is obviously more that exists, IF one set of them can be one temperature, and another identical set be another temperature. The energy that heats up one set is not nothing, and is not known to be a set of quantum particles. In the linear accelerator are quantum particles speeding up and smashing quantum particles ? No. Why build the damn thing if they are ?
The one set has a higher average kinetic energy than the other: you add up the the kinetic energy and divide by the number of atoms/molecules.
Yes, linear accelerators are smashing particles together to better learn the characteristics of their interaction (including how they form more complicated aggregations).
There are quantum particles. Such particles have properties, like spin, charge, momentum, energy, parity, mass, etc. Those properties determine how those particles interact with other particles. We are attempting to learn the specifics of those interactions. Note that energy is *one* of those properties. It is not, itself, fundamental in any way that is different than, say, charge, or spin.
