The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence

[polymath257]

Well, it is still far from clear what you mean by a 'mechanism'. Without understanding that, I cannot give evidence that there is none.

You say that 'hidden variables' and 'mechanisms' may be different things, yet you fail to explain how. Then you go off on spacetime, which seems beside the point to me.

How is the demonstration that there cannot be a hidden variable theory that explains the observations NOT a demonstration that there is no mechanism underlying QM?

Your city analogy *does* have hidden variables: the people and cars operating locally and causally. That is explicitly refuted by the violations of Bell's inequalities.

The car analogy only "does have" because we know they are there.  I said imagine if you didn't know it was people.  How would it look? 

Well, it would satisfy Belll's inequalities, for example. That is because there *would* be hidden variables there.

Ok, so you do not understand why I need to know more about space/time before I change my mind.  How is it you do not understand why that is important?  As to being unclear on the mechanism after I gave you an example and a basic look at some QED stuff is confusing to me.

Oh well ... no matter.

we are at an impasse now that we will not overcome in a forum setting.  And actually, now that I think about it, its one we can't over come.   We don't know enough.  You say its due to bell inequality that you feel there is no mechanism.  I feel bells inequality works exactly how space/time allows it to work.  which neither one of us knows.

Oh I see. You think that Bell's inequalities are violated because spacetime somehow allows a message to go back and forth?

Also ... Neither one of us is dead set on our claims.  SO I say I think they are going to find out whats going on when they find more about space/time.  You say you don't this so.

ok, that's that. I don't really care either way.  You may be correct in end.  It would be really cool if you were too, it would mean we learned something very cool.

Well, I am deadset on saying that QM is not a causal theory even though it is a local theory. I am deadset on saying no local, causal theory can explain the observations we have already made.

So, if a 'mechanism', whatever that means, can be non-causal or non-local, then mechanisms are allowed.