@arewethereyet -I'm not sure what round you're referring to. Please point me in the direction of a response I missed and I'd be happy to look at it again. You're right this is a word game because words have meanings. Gae pointed to the cause of the person's self harm to be the abuser. I don't deny that groups do influence people and in this case was most likely the strongest influencer to the negative behavior. But speaking from experience, people who self harm choose the method consciously. If the question is how to help, get her to a behavioral therapist to break down some of those negative cognitive feedback loops.
@Gae Bolga - I'm not surprised either. I don't negate an abuser's responsibility on influencing individuals either. Perhaps we're not so much in disagreement of opinion rather than focusing on different things. You focus on the hurt caused, which you see as the root of the problem. I am focusing on the reaction/behavior which is a choice with it's own set of responsibilities, and I feel has more root causes than the primary surface one presented in this thread.
@Grandizer - Yes they do. Every decision to act or react is a choice, conscious or unconscious. This person could have externalized their hurt and punched a wall or become a bully to others, gone on a shooting rampage, cried in a corner, withdrawn from the world, hung themselves, or a myriad of other behaviors. They may be more prone to self harm because that's what they've learned/seen/ been told or is easiest. We all choose everyday how we react. My point while the suffering and abuse is real and has accountability, the accountability is only to the harm they caused. Just as onus of the harm this person causes themselves would be just as culpable as if they went on a shooting rampage because of it. I don't see this person any different than a bully turned school shooter.
Bottom line, you can hold value for individuals at some basic level that all people share. You can see the abuse someone suffers as a reason for why they do what they do. You may even pity them for it or have some compassion. The minute you're preferential in whom you pity, you're making a value judgment on their actions. Why is someone who self harms more pitiable than a school shooter, because they only hurt themselves? The minute you go from reason to cause you're blame shifting and taking away accountability for actions, IMO. The person in question has suffered some abuse and those responsible should be held accountable. The person could have handled the abuse in many different ways as I listed above. Maybe even a positive way, like using that hatred and hear and self loathing to motivate a positive difference in their life.
@Gae Bolga - I'm not surprised either. I don't negate an abuser's responsibility on influencing individuals either. Perhaps we're not so much in disagreement of opinion rather than focusing on different things. You focus on the hurt caused, which you see as the root of the problem. I am focusing on the reaction/behavior which is a choice with it's own set of responsibilities, and I feel has more root causes than the primary surface one presented in this thread.
@Grandizer - Yes they do. Every decision to act or react is a choice, conscious or unconscious. This person could have externalized their hurt and punched a wall or become a bully to others, gone on a shooting rampage, cried in a corner, withdrawn from the world, hung themselves, or a myriad of other behaviors. They may be more prone to self harm because that's what they've learned/seen/ been told or is easiest. We all choose everyday how we react. My point while the suffering and abuse is real and has accountability, the accountability is only to the harm they caused. Just as onus of the harm this person causes themselves would be just as culpable as if they went on a shooting rampage because of it. I don't see this person any different than a bully turned school shooter.
Bottom line, you can hold value for individuals at some basic level that all people share. You can see the abuse someone suffers as a reason for why they do what they do. You may even pity them for it or have some compassion. The minute you're preferential in whom you pity, you're making a value judgment on their actions. Why is someone who self harms more pitiable than a school shooter, because they only hurt themselves? The minute you go from reason to cause you're blame shifting and taking away accountability for actions, IMO. The person in question has suffered some abuse and those responsible should be held accountable. The person could have handled the abuse in many different ways as I listed above. Maybe even a positive way, like using that hatred and hear and self loathing to motivate a positive difference in their life.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
