God, Energy and Matter

[Simon Moon]

If you wish to equate God with the universe, I shan't argue it.  If it makes you happy, I'll even suppose that it is true.

But I don't see how this brand of pantheism gets you to virgin birth, genital mutilation, talking snakes, Resurrection, redemption, eternal punishments, miracles, and all the rest of it.  There doesn't seem to be any logical, reasonable method by which this sort of pantheistic deism evolves into Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or any other religion.

Boru

Pantheism is a belief in God, which puts them in the camp with other believers.  Pantheists believe that God became the universe, therefore "creating" the universe.  Therefore they believe in a supernatural existence, which is in common with most other religions.  Not created, never dying energy fits certain qualities given to God.

The pantheists that I know, including World Pantheism, do not define pantheism that way. They define it as the universe is god.

They do not believe in any supernatural realm or existence.

Of course, too, science can say that energy can't be created, but they have no idea of what the conditions were before the advent of time.

What does it even mean for there to be "before the advent of time"? That sounds pretty incoherent.

In other words, science can't make a true determination of whether or not energy can be created or destroyed outside of our closed system.

What demonstrable and falsifiable evidence do you have for the contention, that there is an "outside to our closed system"?

We can't depend on science for the ultimate truths.

If you have another method, please enlighten us what it is. And more importantly, tell us how you know it is reliable.

I'm having people in the forum telling me that God isn't real and having only scientific evidence to support their remarks.

I do not tell you that gods are not real. My position, and that of many (if not most) atheists, is that we have no reason to accept theist's claims that a god does exist, because theists have not met their burden of proof.

I do believe that no gods exist, but I do not claim to know that with absolute certainty, nor is it a dogmatic belief, it is provisional. As long as theists continue to fail to meet their burden of proof, I will continue to be unconvinced of their claims (an atheist).