God, Energy and Matter

[polymath257]

Lek, I'm delusional too. Something revealed itself to me and told me...."blah blah blah"

I'm sure your first thought would have been
"That never happened. You're just making it up."

And you think that because you KNOW that as an atheist, I'm probably not delusional. You give me the attribute of having a good head on my shoulders because of my atheism.

If an atheist told you that they sincerely believed some way out there insane crazy shit, more than likely you would tend to not believe them, instead believing that they are saying these outlandish things "to make a point"

You give us this attribute of being a group that thinks critically and is less likely to believe in bullshit.

If that's what you think of us, then how do you view other theists ?

I don't consider atheists as a group to be more or less delusional than theists.  I consider them more likely to demand physical proof before they accept something as true.  That can be good in some instances, but it can also hold them back from discovering spiritual truths.  Of course, I would consider theists to be more open to other ways to discover truth than through natural methods.  This is very general as everyone within a group is an individual.

So, here's a question. How do you test 'spiritual truths' to *be* true?

Suppose two people disagree about whether some statement is, in deed, 'spiritually true'. Is there a way to determine who is right and/or who is wrong?

Such 'decision procedures' exist in math (using formal proof) and in the sciences (requiring hypotheses to be observationally testable). This is part of why we can label the conclusions of those subjects 'true'.

So what decision procedure is there for 'spiritual truth'? And, if there is none, why would anyone think that there is actually a truth there at all?

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In my view, atheists tend to require evidence prior to belief because they realize that without evidence it is too easy to concoct 'just so' stories. The imagination can dream up all sorts of fictions, none of which have anything to do with reality. Also, atheists tend to accept that they may have the wrong interpretation on their experiences. So, if they have a 'mystical experience', they are more willing to realize it may be illusory.

Theists, on the other hand, are willing to believe because it 'feels good' without requiring either precision or evidence. When they have 'mystical experiences', they tend not to doubt the veracity of their interpretation, saying the experience itself is 'self-justifying' (which atheists will disagree with).

And, as you said, these are generalities. Individuals can differ.