Saturated Fat Controversy

[Abaddon_ire]

Why do you care about what other people eat?

Well, because slaughterhouses don't have glass walls, and there is a lot of propaganda out there preventing people from making informed decisions. And what people eat can cause a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Like veganism does? In fact veganism would appear to harm more animals as this paper shows.

https://fewd.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user...Ethics.pdf

And recieives a point by point rebuttal on sciencebasedmedicine.org.

If they are claiming that saturated fat doesn't cause heart disease, they are obviously going against mainstream science, so they are probably not worth listening to.

If you are going to reject science based medicine, then you have a problem. Do you know what else rejects science? Religion. And thus we are back with more evidence that veganism is a religion.
Furthermore, the Inuit have nearly an exclusive meat diet out of necessity. Oddly this should give them an increased incidence of CVD, but it doesn't.

You mean like death being a food borne disease?

Many people do die of the diseases caused by improper diet.

So what? That is a matter of education. Or are you claiming that veganism is the only "proper" diet? Like how religions claim theirs is the only "proper" way to live?

Cattle wander the fields, sheep wander the mountains, free range chickens are ubiquitous and pigs are cleaner than humans.

Cows raised for milk are sometimes grass-fed. About a third of them, I think. That's because milk of grain-fed cows doesn't contain omega-3, and many people believe (without evidence) that omega-3s protect against heart disease.

They are 100% grass fed here.
Next.

Cows raised for meat are almost exclusively kept in factory farms, and so are chickens and pigs.

False.

I can't find any statistics on that, but I've never seen pigs let to graze near my town.

Pigs don't graze.

On the pastures near my town, you can see sheep, horses, goats and cows, but you can't see pigs and chickens there.

Chickens don't graze either.

And I know where pigs are being kept, I've never actually been inside there, but it's very stinky even when you get just near that factory farm.

Farming is by nature a rather smelly business. Even if the entire world went vegan, it would remain a rather smelly business.

So go moan at the muslims and stop wasting my time.

The fact that people who manage slaughterhouses care more about meeting the halal standards than about animal welfare is rather telling. And it's not just the halal standards. Why are they suffocating the pigs with CO2, rather, than, for instance, beheading them (which nearly all neuroscientists agree would be painless)? Money, maybe?

Once again, I simply don't care what superstitious nonsense muslims believe.

And do you know why hamsters are useful in testing?

No, and I don't care about that any more than I care about the apologetics the Nazis were making for their useless medical experiments.

Like a typical religonist, you simply don't care about the facts, only your vegan religion. And you Godwined the thread. How nice.

See, there is that zealotry again.

What do you mean by "zealotry"?

I mean you are so zealous for your religion that you reject facts and science. You have just demonstrated that BY YOUR OWN SCREED.

There are studies that show coffee causes cancer. There are studies that show coffee cures cancer.

Then we need to see which studies are better designed, or backed up by harder sciences.

Pointless. You have already told use and demonstrated that you don't care about science.

All you are doing is cherry picking the studies you are told to pick by your "pope".

There is nothing like a pope in veganism.

You sure treat your pal Dr. Greger like one even though he trots out egregiously false claims.

Then cite them.

Here are a few of them:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...739190346Q
http://evidenceba.se/facts/31-milk-cause...rt-disease
I can link you to some more if you like.

Those are age related You have to live a long time for any such effects to appear,

It's very frustrating search engines don't link you to the actual studies, but to pages that may or may not link to them,

A. Use a better search engine, and
B. Pay the subscription.

Nevertheless, your statement makes it clear that you have not yourself read the studies you cite. That tells me you are simply posting links you have been told support your view, but not having read them, have no idea if they really do.

especially since I only have access to the slow and expensive cellular Internet right now, and the connection breaks quite often today for some reason. Optima ISP said they will fix my Internet today. Let's hope they will, it hasn't been working for months now.

Not my problem.

So what?

Well, that strongly suggests those studies linking milk intake with heart disease are telling the truth.

Nope.

Conclusions: Milk consumption does appear to be strongly related to CHD death in communities where susceptible people live long enough.

From your citations. Did you not read that part?

Eat a fucking banana once in a while.

Well, that's not what people are being told to do. They are told cow's milk somehow provides enough of everything their body needs. If people believe that, they are going to make wrong dietary decisions which lead to heart disease.

If you are gullible enough to believe marketing pap, then that explains why you are a vegan.

No they require EVIDENCE. Science does not operate on the basis of faith unlike your vegan religion.

To a large degree, science operates on the basis of faith that those who are greater experts than you are interpreting the evidence right. The evidence is not always easy to interpret.

Do you know who else claims that science operates on faith? Young earth creationists. That alone is confirmation that you have a religion.

What I said was that I have no need of B12 supplements thanks to a balanced diet.

What do you mean by "balanced diet"? You mean one in which the proportions of the nutrients are similar to that of in human milk? Because I bet that you aren't eating a balanced diet then. In human milk, about 3% of the calories comes from protein. Almost everybody is eating too much protein these days.

Strawman. On what fucking planet did I ever suggest anything to do with human milk? What are you smoking or otherwise imbibing? 

And human milk? Wait, what? What the actual fuck?

Shame that is not what evolutionary biology is all about then.

Sure. But trying to use that part of evolutionary biology (guesses about what our ancestors were eating tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago) to contradict nutritional science is using a softer science to contradict a hard one.

Still haven't figured out that this is not what evolutionary biology is about, eh. There's a clue in the title.

If one were to uncritically accept youtube videos

Again, I don't accept what YouTubers have to say if it obviously contradicts mainstream science.

You have done nothing but contradict mainstream science.

Sure, some gullible people will fall for them

OK, what is more gullible, to believe that your parents somehow got what is the best diet for humans right, or that Michael Greger, one of the most respected nutritionists of our time, got it right?

False dichotomy. Is there any logical fallacy you will not deploy? And how exactly the fuck have you any clue what diet my parents provided for me? You don't. Admit it.

In fact, my parents provided the best table, all prepared from fresh produce, always tasty and nutritious. They are long since dead, but I continue to do so for my kids and furthermore to teach them how to do so for themselves. So kindly stop attempting to ram your wild assumptions down my throat. It won't wash, that dog don't hunt

Right up to the point they try to shove it forcibly up my nose.

More like calling you out for what you say. Though making meat illegal probably makes more sense than making cars running on fossil fuels illegal, which many politicians propose.

Do not conflate different issues. At least attempt to stay on target.

Sure, whatever, but it has bugger all to do with veganism.

Veganism could probably lessen the issue, because people eating meat raises the prices of grain. We are producing around 2-3 times as much grain as we actually need because we are feeding animals we eat with grain. Eliminating those animals would cause a drop of the demand for grain, and thus would decrease the prices. It's simple supply-and-demand.

False as demonstrated in the actually readable citation I provided you above which you probably will not read. Because it confounds your religion.