[Serious] Why are you an Atheist?

[Simon Moon]

Kind of late replying...


Yes, more questions (and answers) are necessary.

I am not sure what would convince me a god or gods exists. It would depend on the description of the god under question.

Just to put this into context, it is often the case, that the type of evidence that ends up proving a proposition, is unknown before it is discovered. For example, before the microscope was invented, followed by the discovery of bacteria in 1676, how would we have known that there is evidence that bacteria were responsible for most disease?

But if a god does exist, and it is one of the gods described by theists as one who allegedly wants me to know it exists, then it should know what it would take to convince me. If said god continues to play the longest game of hide and seek in history with those of us that are not gullible, how is that my fault?

All I know, is if this god does want to be known, it seems like all its earthly representatives and apologists have done a horrible job demonstrating its existence.

Ancient texts, personal testimony, miracle claims, healings, etc, do not hold up to scrutiny. The philosophical arguments: Kalam, teleological & design, ontological, and presuppositional arguments are all fallacious. So, until such a time that theists are able to meet their burden of proof that a god exists, I will remain to be unconvinced.

Everything you said makes perfect sense to me other than your final few sentences.  It might be that I just don’t understand your logic.  I exist and I feel no burden of proof to prove it to you.  I am not here to prove to you that God exists because we all know, that would be an impossibility even if you had given the evidence required for your belief to be positive.  If you were to say to me in your next post reply “prove that you exist” I would not could not and would feel no burden to do so.

There is no such thing as 'my logic' or 'your logic', there is only logic. Logic is a method to formulate arguments into syllogistic form to tell if they are valid and sound. And when Kalam, teleological, ontological arguments are put into syllogistic form, they are found to be fallacious and flawed.

If you are not here to convince me that a god exists, then I am not sure what we are discussing. As I stated earlier, I am very interested in knowing what people believe and why they believe it (the important part). Because If you have a true belief, I want to know about it.

I am not sure it is impossible to prove a god exists. Not sure how you came to that conclusion? Just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean it is impossible.

Which leads to the question; what convinced you that a god exists/

I wonder what the world would look like right now if all of the people that doubted an actually existing God would demand that he prove himself and he was the sort of God that allowed his creation to demand it and he was the type God that would give it to them.   I imagine if all was upended at the whim of doubters the world might be quite chaotic.

I never said I was demanding that a god or gods prove themselves to me. My position is that, until evidence and valid and sound logic is presented to me, I have no warrant to believe the claim. As philosopher David Hume stated, "The wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence. …and should “always reject the greater miracle". This is logic and skepticism 101.

I accept your reasons for doubting that God exists because they are yours.  If my existence was based on constant proof I might be spending most my time proving to unreasonable demands of proof.  My proof of my existence is the fact that I do exist.  God’s proof of his existence is the same.  Whether you believe or doubt, is your reality obviously.
I have a willingness to believe and it’s not based in God’s constant proving himself to me.  The fact that he does not cower to my demands in prayer and proof acts is a fact of his being not in subjection to me, but the other way around.

Obviously the above paragraph contains all sorts of presuppositions not in evidence. Beings that don't exist, are unable to cause other things.

I do not require anywhere near the same level of evidence to support your existence to that of a god. I have plenty of prior evidence of: billions of other people existing, interacting in real life and online with other people, reading about many people, etc, etc. Nothing like this level of evidence I have for your existence, exists for any god, yours included.

As for miracles...Do you have kids?  Have you seen a live birth?  Procreation is a fact miracle and can be seen here and now.  Of course some say that’s not a miracle at all.  I say the world around me is a miracle, and to many others it's just a fact pattern based in some theory.  A theory that accounts for our planet being the exact distance from the sun to support life and many many other statistical phenomena as just that.

All you are doing is pointing at the wonders of nature, and explaining your observations with a god. I see the same wonders, and see no reason to call them a miracle, or evidence for a god. Before you can state a god is responsible, you have to demonstrate such a god exists. And you are unwilling or unable to provide evidence and reasoned argument to support your god beliefs, so we are talking past each other.