RE: Trying close to my best to rationalize Christianity
January 15, 2020 at 4:26 pm
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2020 at 5:18 pm by sausagerock.)
(January 15, 2020 at 10:40 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Soul forging isn't made reasonable or unreasonable on account of the number of gods, or the state of their character. As suspected, you use rationalization as a stand-in for rational. They mean very different things, and while you categorized your efforts as rationalization, and succeeded- characterizing them as rational would fail.
Yes, maybe so. Here I haven't touched arguments that would propose it as rational. Clearing this up, I won't either, just trying to explain it as a possibility that can't be ruled out completely and is worthy for brainstorming.
(January 14, 2020 at 11:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Hello fellas - from sausage - yeah I can't take this seriously.
Stopped after the 'greeting'.
Don't, I'm just a wanker philosopher that is trying to philosophize and find people who like free form discussions from another perspective.
(January 15, 2020 at 9:46 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: OP, apply the issues you use to disprove other religions to yours.
Interesting stuff actually. Last year I had a course in ancient culture history. There were similarities in all of them combined with local practices. They mostly differed in thoughts on how to access this virtuous living with multiple theories on top that don't necessarily go crossroads with others, if we are willing to understand metaphors as we are doing it while reading Nietzche for example.
I believe, to name something, that reincarnation theory from India, which proposes that we reincarnate until we are worthy enough to go to the afterlife goes quite well with idea that I laid out. A consciousness lives and learns and develops in this test site multiple times until ready.
I am still looking through different cultures and their beliefs but currently I'm quite surprised that it is possible to interpret many of them being about the same thing. Another idea I've had is that maybe on this one platform, that is our universe, there were actually multiple creators, like different groups of this higher civilization that are trying different approaches, thus different religions.
Why are they all in this one Earth and not scattered throughout universe? Maybe they are, but seeing as it's quite the quantity of coincidences for life to exist, maybe it's not that easy for them to make many more like that.
Old ones are the ones which are worth talking about. After ancient religions, where there are shitload of them, it's looking very obvious like they just take one of the old ones and add very human philosophy to them. They seem shallow af.
(January 15, 2020 at 10:01 am)brewer Wrote:(January 15, 2020 at 9:56 am)sausagerock Wrote: One sci-fi to explain another, don't confuse the two. Science fiction is btw in most cases before science.
god is science fiction =
Science fiction is ideas of what could be.
For example, Higgs Boson whas science fiction before proven. Even black holes were science fiction until the first photo of it. ET is a science fiction and so is simulation theory and therefore a creator or God.
(January 15, 2020 at 10:45 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Welcome to the forums, sausagerock. It's an interesting analogy but stretching it too far seems unavoidable because of the immense differences between our characteristics and those ascribed to God. Adam and Eve may be reasonably analogous to the first pair of sapient devices, but we are not reasonably analogous to God and his angels.
It might be better to take Genesis as an allegory where the fall of Adam and Eve represents humanity becoming conscious of good and evil. That's the Baha'i interpretation. Not taking the account so literally resolves many issues, such as punishing people for doing something wrong when they did it before they knew what right and wrong were.
Yes, of course! I perhaps have to mention that I believe that Adam and Eve are not necessarily two people but just those who lived in the creator society and were exiled when proved themselves as unreliable. I see Genesis as symbols, not so much literally.
If we create an AI, it is quite possible that we will try to present ourselves more different from them than we actually are, as it would be dangerous and quite extreme for us to create someone to compete in survival and thriving.
(January 15, 2020 at 10:49 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Or, if you wanted to make christianity rational, rather than rationalize over some item of dogma....take the rational approach and leave theological interpretation behind altogether.
We were not created by any god, and there is no soul forge. The stories represent human desires and etiological devices important to the cultures of origin.
I don't really see it as a wise move to be certain in these kind of topics and don't recommend it.
It is interesting though that religion was necessary for us. Why not just learn as all other animals do by just believing ad learning from empirical facts? Why wasn't it like that?
(January 15, 2020 at 1:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: It's hard to rationalize Christianity because it makes no sense. Why did Jesus or anyone else, god or human, have to suffer and die? Human sacrifice? Really? If this did happen, as Christians say it did and for the reasons they say it did, there needs to be some better reasoning, some rational explanation for why it was necessary. Why would a god need to rely on such a disgusting and primitive act to forgive us and save us from his judgment?
Most societies on Earth realized centuries ago that ritual human sacrifice is as barbaric as it is unproductive. Tossing virgins into a volcano or carving out some guy’s heart atop a temple once might have seemed like sensible investments for better times ahead, but eventually it dawned on most that such practices were cruel, stupid, and unnecessary. As an act of punishment and/or religious rite, it is beneath us. We are better than that. So why would God need such an act to offer humankind an escape clause?
Why would God have to do anything to provide us with a route to salvation and heaven? Couldn’t he simply have skipped the whole slow, agonizing death of Jesus and just forgiven us? Is he bound by some laws that even he must follow? What is going on?
So, as I explained in original post, to understand it, we must look at it from the perspective of creator who has tried a lot of different things to make the perfect human for Him. Jesus was for them to understand us better, forgiveness doesn't work without complete understanding.
Human sacrifices were a thing and the New Testament made them obsolete, that was before many other cultures that it was classified as barbaric. Throughout Bible there are different methods tried to make us cool, many failed and human sacrifice was one (just as destroying cities and what not).
