RE: Plantinga's "Free Will" defense contradicts Christianity
February 7, 2020 at 5:33 am
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2020 at 5:35 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 6, 2020 at 11:22 pm)ColdComfort Wrote: God made a world where the issue of human salvation or damnation is played out. We have free will although that is not the only factor that determines our eternal fate. Predestination and grace are other factors, if factors is the right word. But given free will than moral evil is inevitable. If that is all Platinga is saying than, sure, God could not have given free will with one hand and eliminated human cruelty with the other. Not in this world anyway.Not in any world, in Platingas estimation. It's impossible, simply not something that god can do.
Quote:But then there is the pain not caused by human free will. I find claims that human suffering caused by illness or natural disasters will produce something positive in the future kinda dodgy. Like your faith will grow stronger or something like that. Maybe. Maybe not. People get bitter too. And then there is the issue of the pain of non human animals. In The Problem of Pain C. S. Lewis admitted to being stumped on this one. Non-human animals don't go to Heaven or Hell. That's the general view anyway. They just die. So pain can have no redemptive or spiritual value.Then, again, you reject Platingas argument. This world is the best possible world that god could make, in his estimation. I find it difficult to believe this as well. Whether we're discussing moral or natural evil, there's no shortage of ways that lowly human worms like ourselves can see and effect improvement. It makes little sense, in light of that, to claim that this is the best possible world that an omni-god could make.
My own personal view is pain in this world often does not matter. A lot of it is just random and meaningless. Like other animals I avoid it. But it's temporary. It comes to an end. I think God could have created this world with a lot less physical pain. He could have created six thousands years ago and eliminated the long course of evolution which clearly involved a lot of physical pain. I don't think there is any logical impossibility in this. But He didn't.
So I'm on the side of those who do not think God created the best of all possible worlds.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
