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The absurd need for logical proofs for God
#25
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God
(November 22, 2020 at 5:05 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: I am unable to demonstrate deductively the existence of a god. And it's not a problem. Deduction only works if we provide ourselves with a general enough set of axioms. In the context of the existence of god, such axioms will take the form of an exhaustive list of the most elementary facts about reality we can all agree about, unfortunately such a list doesn't and cannot exist.

Well...

It sure is a problem for those of us that understand good standards of evidence.

Your god did not plan very well if he created a system, that would not allow for an actual demonstration of his existence.

So, either your god wants to remain hidden from those of us are not credulous, or he doesn't exist.


Quote:Sorry to inform you, such an event cannot logically take place. The god of abrahamic religion can never be perceived by our finest machines. And again - and this is the relevant part- it's not a problem. Think about it, we now know that there are fundamental limits to what we can measure (e.g. the uncertainty principle, the Planck constant, etc.) . We can never surpass these limits regarding our own observable reality, let alone that of god.

How do you know that humanity will never be able to create a device capable of detecting gods?

Quote:I think it's unfair from a historical perspective to compare an obvious fraud with an abrahamic religion. And what you think without referencing any evidence is irrelevant. As long as you can't substantiate your claims about Islam which led you to dismiss it, you are the one having trouble with standards of evidence.

Sure, maybe Mormonism was not the best example to use.

But that doesn't change the fact both religions make the same unevidenced claims for their prophet.

Quote:You are doing inference right now from what surrounds you. You only saw one person probably (yourself) typing words in the keyboard then sending them in this forum. Despite that you are convinced that all these members are actual people doing the same thing. There, we have an inference, which you do automatically, from the smallest sample (you only) to all the members of the forum.

I never said I reject all inference. We live our daily lives on inference and induction.

There are great reasons to infer other minds exist.

The fact that there is currently no answer for hard solipsism, does not mean that it is irrational to infer that other minds exist. I am presented with evidence every day that they do exist.

Where is the evidence for me to infer that a god exists

Quote:Muhammad came up with the Qur'an as a literary challenge. A challenge which was relevant to his time. It's a very complicated topic, but overall, it's easier to explain his biography if he were a prophet than if he weren't. Many christian apologists today acknowledge he was sincere. The only hanging point worth a dicussion is whether his inspirational spells (i.e. the Qur'an) were the product of his subconsciousness, that is, the manifestation of some natural mental disorder like temporal lobe epilespy, or coming from up high. And the former doesn't look very defensible.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/793843/
Overall claims of prophets are actually more than claims, they either have a challenge relevant to their time and surroundings (Muhammad's contemporaries were highly proficient in Arabic, an extraordinarily eloquent book belittling their deities like the Qur'an is really, really miraculous for these folks ; Moses' contemporaries practiced sorcery, a staff turning into a serpent is then a "suitable" miracle, etc. 
No atheist will complain if they saw Moses' staff in action. But they complain a lot with Muhammad's miracle - the only miracle that exists today -, and it's not difficult, with all that has been said in mind, to understand why.

The bolded part above is far from the only explanations, or hanging point. False dichotomy.

If I see Moses' staff in action, explaining it via a miracle would not even enter my mind.

I would accept that I experienced seeing the staff turn into a snake, but there are many other explanations to account for it, than a miracle.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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Messages In This Thread
The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 2:04 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 3:15 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 3:29 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by no one - November 22, 2020 at 2:44 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 5:05 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Simon Moon - November 22, 2020 at 6:32 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 24, 2020 at 2:39 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Simon Moon - November 25, 2020 at 11:27 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 5:24 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - November 22, 2020 at 4:53 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 22, 2020 at 5:22 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Ranjr - November 22, 2020 at 5:22 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by brewer - November 22, 2020 at 7:47 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Silver - November 22, 2020 at 10:35 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - November 24, 2020 at 9:25 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Deesse23 - November 25, 2020 at 3:19 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Deesse23 - November 25, 2020 at 7:31 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 26, 2020 at 2:08 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 26, 2020 at 5:50 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 26, 2020 at 6:15 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 28, 2020 at 3:41 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Paleophyte - November 29, 2020 at 12:47 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Simon Moon - November 26, 2020 at 10:20 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 29, 2020 at 4:54 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - November 30, 2020 at 7:27 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - November 30, 2020 at 11:51 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Paleophyte - November 30, 2020 at 10:50 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - November 29, 2020 at 11:21 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Grandizer - November 25, 2020 at 11:39 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - November 26, 2020 at 1:11 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Grandizer - November 26, 2020 at 8:23 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - November 27, 2020 at 2:53 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Silver - November 27, 2020 at 9:22 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Deesse23 - November 28, 2020 at 3:52 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Ranjr - November 27, 2020 at 7:37 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - November 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Spongebob - November 30, 2020 at 12:48 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Spongebob - November 30, 2020 at 10:39 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2020 at 8:43 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 3, 2020 at 10:32 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 3, 2020 at 11:30 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 3, 2020 at 12:12 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Silver - December 3, 2020 at 11:57 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 3, 2020 at 12:53 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 3, 2020 at 4:13 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 3, 2020 at 4:31 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 7, 2020 at 2:01 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Silver - December 8, 2020 at 10:48 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 8, 2020 at 10:47 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Paleophyte - December 14, 2020 at 10:51 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 15, 2020 at 2:04 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 17, 2020 at 5:14 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 17, 2020 at 6:13 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 17, 2020 at 7:54 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - December 17, 2020 at 8:32 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 28, 2020 at 11:44 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Abaddon_ire - December 28, 2020 at 11:56 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Ranjr - December 1, 2020 at 7:17 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Spongebob - December 1, 2020 at 10:23 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 3, 2020 at 12:23 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 3, 2020 at 6:34 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 8, 2020 at 7:12 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 8, 2020 at 8:39 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Spongebob - December 11, 2020 at 1:43 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 7, 2020 at 2:20 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 8, 2020 at 8:05 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 8, 2020 at 8:50 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 8, 2020 at 9:13 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Belacqua - December 15, 2020 at 7:41 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 15, 2020 at 2:14 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 15, 2020 at 2:28 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 9, 2020 at 9:48 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 11, 2020 at 12:18 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by no one - December 9, 2020 at 9:43 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by no one - December 9, 2020 at 9:55 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 9, 2020 at 9:58 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Silver - December 9, 2020 at 10:01 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by no one - December 9, 2020 at 10:16 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 9, 2020 at 12:15 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 9, 2020 at 2:11 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Chas - December 12, 2020 at 12:18 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 12, 2020 at 3:37 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Deesse23 - December 12, 2020 at 7:33 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Deesse23 - December 12, 2020 at 8:14 am
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 15, 2020 at 3:05 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - December 17, 2020 at 6:20 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 18, 2020 at 2:35 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 28, 2020 at 12:33 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 28, 2020 at 12:44 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by R00tKiT - December 30, 2020 at 6:19 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 30, 2020 at 6:48 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Angrboda - December 28, 2020 at 12:30 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Apollo - December 28, 2020 at 12:39 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by Nay_Sayer - December 30, 2020 at 6:51 pm
RE: The absurd need for logical proofs for God - by no one - December 31, 2020 at 5:07 am

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