Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 26, 2025, 4:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why I'm an agnostic-atheist.
#20
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist.
(November 3, 2011 at 10:47 am)NathanielFisher Wrote: The whole "if I see a painting I know it has a painter" thing is midly convincing to me.

That argument is convincing as long as we're talking about paintings. When it comes to nature, though, it's not very convincing. It's just the old "everything has to have a creator" argument, which for some reason doesn't apply to God. If God could have always existed, the universe could have always existed, with or without God. To say that it couldn't is just special pleading.

Quote:The Kalam argument I'm refering to is William Lane Craig's version. Like the design argument it had its flaws. One flaw imo is that it doesn't accept that nature could be the "first cause" of the big bang. It says it has to be God.

First you have to prove that God exists, and then you have to prove why the big bang couldn't have occurred without God. Since we don't know what caused the big bang, we can't say one way or another that a god was needed to make it happen. But since invoking a god is just another way of saying it magically happened, it's not scientific nor does it add to human knowledge.

At any rate, as I pointed out earlier, even if you could prove that the entire universe was designed by a higher intelligence, it doesn't prove that Christianity is the right religion to follow. It may be support for the Deist position, but there's no logical way to get from "the universe was created" to "worship Jesus or burn in hell forever."

Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by LastPoet - November 2, 2011 at 12:57 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Doubting Thomas - November 2, 2011 at 1:15 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 2, 2011 at 1:20 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Kayenneh - November 2, 2011 at 2:40 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 3:14 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Doubting Thomas - November 2, 2011 at 3:36 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by fr0d0 - November 2, 2011 at 4:07 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by JollyForr - November 2, 2011 at 4:18 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Kayenneh - November 2, 2011 at 4:47 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Napoléon - November 2, 2011 at 7:03 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Napoléon - November 2, 2011 at 7:15 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Justtristo - November 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 3, 2011 at 10:47 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Doubting Thomas - November 3, 2011 at 2:16 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 11:40 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 3, 2011 at 12:07 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 3, 2011 at 1:57 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 11:52 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 3, 2011 at 2:56 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Doubting Thomas - November 3, 2011 at 3:04 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 2:27 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by toro - November 6, 2011 at 1:35 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 4, 2011 at 9:50 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 4, 2011 at 1:21 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 1:48 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:22 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 2:37 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by NathanielFisher - November 4, 2011 at 2:42 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 2:14 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 2:28 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:32 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 2:38 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:53 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 2:55 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 3:06 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 3:48 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 3:57 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by neverinchurch - November 6, 2011 at 9:40 am
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 3:20 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by justthetruth - November 4, 2011 at 4:27 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 4:14 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 4:35 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by thesummerqueen - November 4, 2011 at 4:40 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Doubting Thomas - November 4, 2011 at 6:29 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by Mal Kiever - November 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm
RE: Why I'm an agnostic-atheist. - by The Grand Nudger - November 6, 2011 at 10:03 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Question from an agnostic chrisNub 41 12644 March 30, 2018 at 7:28 am
Last Post: robvalue
  My brother who used to be a devout Muslim is now agnostic Lebneni Murtad 4 1842 March 21, 2017 at 5:08 pm
Last Post: Mr Greene
  What is the right definition of agnostic? Red_Wind 27 7538 November 7, 2016 at 11:43 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Well, I just can't change that I'm Agnostic... LivingNumbers6.626 15 4145 July 6, 2016 at 4:33 am
Last Post: Alex K
  Everyone is Agnostic z7z 16 4370 June 26, 2016 at 10:36 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist? AgnosticMan123 160 35909 June 6, 2016 at 10:43 pm
Last Post: Adam Blackstar
  My siblings are agnostic, should I try discussing atheism with them? CindyBaker 17 4802 April 18, 2016 at 9:27 am
Last Post: LostLocke
  Albert Einstein the Agnostic MattB 21 7794 February 23, 2016 at 11:45 pm
Last Post: MattB
  Atheist or Agnostic? datc 126 44323 April 6, 2015 at 10:28 pm
Last Post: Pizza
  Agnostic: a pointless term? robvalue 206 46239 February 16, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Last Post: Whateverist



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)