(June 2, 2021 at 3:11 pm)Astreja Wrote:(June 2, 2021 at 10:08 am)ronedee Wrote: ...No one human, is innocent of sin.
Sin is an imaginary crime against an imaginary victim.
Saying "I'm sorry, God; yes, I accept Jesus" does nothing to resolve a problem caused in the real world against a real victim. You must apologize and make restitution for what you've done, and the person you harmed is fully within their rights to refuse to forgive you.
I reject substitutionary atonement unconditionally.
You are looking at it through a human perspective. It's not to say, we don't owe each other repentance & reparations. But, in God's eyes none of us are innocent.
So we can all be put in the category of "sinner". And to say otherwise is...well....being a sinner.
We're not substituting anything. Atonement for our sins before God, is accepting His payment for our sins. He paid the price with us (death of the body).
And that goes along with His Love for us, and our Love for Him and each other. Of course most can't wrap their heads around that. Even
believers have trouble understanding. And, that was my question years ago in my heart! Why?
Unfortunately, all had to go down for freewill to exist. God didn't want robots. He wanted His creation to be independent and Love Him
for the sake of His gifts of Love & Life. Which most could care about. Just look around? The moment before us, is all that matters.
Unfortunately again... a lot of people can't get past the "atonement" & "blood sacrifice" part, and feel that IF He exists, why didn't he figure out another plan?
And that's a good question.
The way I see it is: What we do here? We will do there...wherever He exists. And this is the proving grounds for it. We, humans & God, will never have to
look back. Because our Faith in Him, through all of this "doubt & fear" will be enough for Him to share with us His Glory & Kingdom unequivocally!
And... He lived here with us! Loved us and suffered death. A pretty bad death. But, again that's NOT payment enough for all the babies w/ brain cancer.
Faith is huge in all this! Obviously. And doing His Will, is simple enough. Basically; treating each other with Love & Kindness. Which expels the
theory of; there are thousands of gods! Will people all go to hell who don't believe in yours. Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.
I didn't hear anything about knowing Him. But, plenty about doing what is right! And to Love one another, which was what His Father wanted
us to do! And to keep His commandments, which are pretty much universal, common sense doctrine.
So, yeah it makes perfect sense to me. YMMV
Quis ut Deus?