RE: Why God doesn't stop satan?
June 11, 2021 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: June 11, 2021 at 10:48 am by R00tKiT.)
(June 10, 2021 at 5:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: But, as has been explained to you over and over here, appearance of design is not a reliable method for detecting design,
The sentence in bold really seems strange. How else would one suspect design, then ? If you see lots handwritten and meaningful sentences in a notepad, doesn't that point both to the existence of a pen AND of an intelligence..? you certainly wouldn't call it an appearance. Why can't we say likewise about all things around us ?
(June 10, 2021 at 5:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: because some things that appear designed are designed, and some things aren’t.
No, you don't know that! It's really audacious to say that something isn't designed. How can you possibly prove a negative?
(June 10, 2021 at 10:02 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: The argument is "if you accept one unprovable thing as true, you must accept them all".
The existence of other mind isn't "unprovable", it's supported by analogical and inferential arguments. The argument from design relies on inference too. If one accepts the former, then they should accept the latter.
(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Exactly so, and, to the existence of other minds, your belief in a great fairy is no more relevant or useful to that end.
It's good to know that you would only believe in things because they are useful, not because they are true.
(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
Theism is not a solution to the problem of hard solipsism that you see as a problem.
How is hard solipsism a problem for someone who believes that a god created external reality, with no intent to deceive its creatures? It is you who needs to deal with the possiblity of being stuck in a matrix, not me.
(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I insist, for example, that I only need observe other human existence to believe in other minds. You assert, to the contrary, that those humans have no proper mind and indeed no free will. That all is the mind of god, all is the will of god - not the will of any or even all men.
Have fun misrepresenting my position. You didn't answer the bit regarding the possibility of reconciling foreknowledge with free will. I'll repeat that again : free will only makes sense when time is taken into account, past the time when an individual can choose between at least two alternatives, "free will" ceases to have meaning. An all-powerful God is capable of permitting choice to an individual at given moments in time. Thanks to his foreknowledge, he knows all the outcomes of all the choices made, and thus can create a reality which corresponds exactly to these outcomes.
I wasn't asking you for why you believe in other minds.. we all believe in them for the same reason. But about whether you have a complete justification of this belief that can be conveyed in formal terms. Chances are the same justification would be enough or more than enough to accept that a designer exists.
(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You do not believe in free will, and yet you insist upon it's reality.
Did I mention before that free will actually requires God? It is under your worldview that free will is impossible, not mine. If there is no god, there is nothing provable other than matter and chemical reactions in our brain, which all happen independently of our will. You are the product of completely mechanical processes and of the input you get from your senses, there is simply no room for choice or freedom. Let's see how you get out of that.
I searched some entries of atheist activists on Youtube, I admit I was shocked that the founders of Rationality Rules, Cosmic Skeptic, The atheist experience, etc all seem to share the same conclusion, there can't be free will under your godless worldview. Under mine ,there are possibilites of reconciliation, such as the one I tried to present above.