RE: Why God doesn't stop satan?
June 25, 2021 at 4:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:53 pm by R00tKiT.)
(June 25, 2021 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The logical incompatibility between free will and foreknowledge has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my time contingency. Like force, you don't understand the issue, so you argue a non issue. You and I may be in some time contingent relationship, but the fore-knower isn't...foreknowledge itself, absent any actual fore-knower, isn't. You've asserted a state of affairs in which free will is impossible, and then declared, nevertheless, that we have it.
One of the two things you believe is flatly false by reference to the other, by definition, no less...... That's all there is. I don't care which of the two you feel is important enough to save vs which you have to jettison for the good of the other. I assume you would protect god's abilities over your own...but, hey, anything could happen.
Assert all you want that they are incompatible.. I already told you they are not; you admitted before that the existence of a god (even if he is a foreknower) doesn't change the state of affairs in this world, if he knows my future actions.. he just knows my future actions. Let me clarify further, let's take two propositions :
P1 : Daughter D is going to choose flavor F of her ice cream today
P2 : Ten years ago, P1 was true.
Do you think P1 and P2 are inconsistent - absent a god - ??? They are not obviously, a true proposition like P1 is a true proposition even before D existed. Now what about:
P3 : God knows (at all times) that P1 is true.
P2 and P3 are logically equivalent simply because God existed ten years ago. If P2 is true, then an omniscient being knows P2. And if an omniscient being knows that P2 is true, P2 is true. So P2 implies P3, and P3 implies P2. QED
If P2 and P3 are equivalent, then P3 and P1 are logically consistent. In other words we can have a fore knower and free will. QED.
(June 25, 2021 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: So? So what if a god unjustly punished us for actions we take. It would still be a god. If we had no free will, that's what a god would be doing. It's hilarious that you would argue that we had free will to avoid that negatively valued consequence after asserting it as a matter of your faith. You call other people who believe this fatalists and insist that they are in the minority. What do you think that makes you?
I agree there could be an unjust God. There is no contradiction between omniscience/omnipotence and unjustness. But it's futile to inquire about such a deity because it doesn't matter if we worship it/follow its instructions or not. It could punish us arbitrarly no matter what we do. But all this is just meaningless chatter unless you actually go ahead an prove P1 and P3 above are logically inconsistent.