I apologize for the delay, work became.. well.. work for a bit.
Most people when you’re in a shooting range and hand them a gun and tell them to shoot the target will aim and pull the trigger. Skeptics will check to see if there’s ammo in the clip. If you pull the trigger (with ammo) and nothing happens what do you assume? Do you assume that the ammo is faulty, that they were dummy rounds? Do you know if the firing pin is installed?
B) Excluding negative results would be an unfair comparison. I have never felt the inner need to pray, prayed, expected a result, and trusted in that knowledge with something that was used to glorify God without out a positive result. I have prayed when asked to, expecting a result, trusted in that knowledge and gotten mixed results (almost entirely negative). I have also felt the inner need to pray, prayed without expectation, trusted that it was taken care of, at a time when I was doing something “in God’s will” for my life and also gotten mostly positive results. I have also felt the inner need to pray, prayed, expected a result, and trusted in that knowledge with something that wasn’t used to glorify God and got affirmative results that were temporary or negative results.
C) If you’re going to use phrases like “ridiculous stories”, you might as well just call me a liar or a cook because it’s just as much an emotion appeal to discredit my position rather than address the point unemotionally. It also shows your bias in this case. It’ll be a short conversation if this is just going through the motions.
D) And what are the exact probabilities of those exact events happening in that timeframe? I’m not a mathematician so I can’t answer that. I believe they exceed reasonable probability, unless you can show otherwise.
E) As to your alternatives for the first instance; without acknowledging you have a problem, or a problem existing, there would be no testament to God, reliance on a higher power, testament to God’s plan. Basically, without a need existing, there’s no possibility to be genuine in a request for saving from God.
F) “So does God ignore the pleas of children in pain, so it's only adults he listens to? Or have you personally got a hotline to him not afforded to your son and others?” Most of the time, not all of them, a predominant amount of the time. I believe that prayer have to be asked by one who knows and understands God to a minimum of accepting Jesus as their savior. Children can’t do that, nor can unbelievers. Now some children it’s supposed can see angels or something like that, so I don’t discount that children could know God more on a natural instinctual level and thus have their prayers answered, but I have no personal support for that stance.
(September 26, 2011 at 7:32 am)ElDinero Wrote:A) You’re correct in that it was improper for me to state “quite often people” as that’s a generality and means nothing when speaking from a subjective perspective. It is also argumentum ad populum. From my perspective I know of no prayer I expected a result from that hasn’t gotten an affirmative result. Let me give an example:
Most people when you’re in a shooting range and hand them a gun and tell them to shoot the target will aim and pull the trigger. Skeptics will check to see if there’s ammo in the clip. If you pull the trigger (with ammo) and nothing happens what do you assume? Do you assume that the ammo is faulty, that they were dummy rounds? Do you know if the firing pin is installed?
B) Excluding negative results would be an unfair comparison. I have never felt the inner need to pray, prayed, expected a result, and trusted in that knowledge with something that was used to glorify God without out a positive result. I have prayed when asked to, expecting a result, trusted in that knowledge and gotten mixed results (almost entirely negative). I have also felt the inner need to pray, prayed without expectation, trusted that it was taken care of, at a time when I was doing something “in God’s will” for my life and also gotten mostly positive results. I have also felt the inner need to pray, prayed, expected a result, and trusted in that knowledge with something that wasn’t used to glorify God and got affirmative results that were temporary or negative results.
C) If you’re going to use phrases like “ridiculous stories”, you might as well just call me a liar or a cook because it’s just as much an emotion appeal to discredit my position rather than address the point unemotionally. It also shows your bias in this case. It’ll be a short conversation if this is just going through the motions.
D) And what are the exact probabilities of those exact events happening in that timeframe? I’m not a mathematician so I can’t answer that. I believe they exceed reasonable probability, unless you can show otherwise.
E) As to your alternatives for the first instance; without acknowledging you have a problem, or a problem existing, there would be no testament to God, reliance on a higher power, testament to God’s plan. Basically, without a need existing, there’s no possibility to be genuine in a request for saving from God.
F) “So does God ignore the pleas of children in pain, so it's only adults he listens to? Or have you personally got a hotline to him not afforded to your son and others?” Most of the time, not all of them, a predominant amount of the time. I believe that prayer have to be asked by one who knows and understands God to a minimum of accepting Jesus as their savior. Children can’t do that, nor can unbelievers. Now some children it’s supposed can see angels or something like that, so I don’t discount that children could know God more on a natural instinctual level and thus have their prayers answered, but I have no personal support for that stance.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari