RE: If you had a button that would turn all theists into atheists and agnostic?
November 15, 2011 at 9:46 pm
[quote='Shell B' pid='206887' dateline='1321405840']
And you think that none of those people have ever developed an opinion based on someone else's opinion?[/quote]
No?
Of course people have developed opinions based on other peoples opinions. I'm sure we both have too. But we've nearly all been exposed to some sort of religion so even if you are just following another atheists opinion, you still know about religion which can counter that opinion. if you've got a comparison you then need to make a choice.
[quote]You do not have to know god exists to be an atheist. If you don't believe in a god or gods, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter if you know some people believe in gods or not.[/quote]
This definition is definitely a matter for debate - not too seriously of course because in the grand scheme of things its not that important. The definition of atheism as you say is "Non belief in god or gods" That's it. Just that. I'd agree too.
However to not believe in something, an idea (god) needs to be proposed to you. You then reject that proposal because there is no evidence to back it up. You refuse to believe.
To not believe is not the same as to not know, just as to believe is not the same as to know. If you are a newborn baby, or feral child, you don't not believe in god, you just don't know of any god.
Do you not believe in something you've never ever thought of? No you just don't know, because you never thought or heard of it. Anyway...not a biggie really.
[quote]Quite right. That is what you were saying. You said all atheists are capable of critical thinking. It's just not true. All atheists do not believe in god and are human, presumably. That is all. [/quote]
All atheists have made a choice. Even if brought up atheist, nobody escapes the tentacles of religion. So there is still a choice to make and evidence to examine, and that needs some reasoning.
[quote]Of course you can. Just because that is how you and I got here means nothing. There is almost certainly an atheist out there who is only atheist because his parents taught him to be. He didn't have to think for himself. He only had to keep disagreeing with theists. [/quote]
We don't want theists to know that.
[quote=Shell]There is no "let's" about it. Such a button is not only logically absurd, but suspension of disbelief does nothing to make it less absurd. Anyone who would push such a button is taking away the freedom of others. The idea is disgusting.
[quote]My outrage? It really gets old when every noob you disagree with pats himself on the back thinking he pissed you off just because you stated your opinion. I'm not angry at all. I am stating my opinion. Just because it runs counter to yours -- I'm disagreeing, in other words -- does not mean I am angry.
[/quote]
Point I was making was not that you disagreed, but that you took my comment too seriously, that's how it felt.
We were talking about an imaginary red button that I said jokingly "no problem", "let's press the button!", which you managed to call "logically absurd" (well yeah!) and "disgusting"
And no, I wasn't patting myself on the back either, it wasn't about getting one over on you, I was just a bit shocked by your reaction actually.
If you feel I have trolled you in some way with the last comment which caused you to say "noob patting yourself on the back", then I apologise. But look at my reaction to yours in context.
And you think that none of those people have ever developed an opinion based on someone else's opinion?[/quote]
No?
Of course people have developed opinions based on other peoples opinions. I'm sure we both have too. But we've nearly all been exposed to some sort of religion so even if you are just following another atheists opinion, you still know about religion which can counter that opinion. if you've got a comparison you then need to make a choice.
[quote]You do not have to know god exists to be an atheist. If you don't believe in a god or gods, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter if you know some people believe in gods or not.[/quote]
This definition is definitely a matter for debate - not too seriously of course because in the grand scheme of things its not that important. The definition of atheism as you say is "Non belief in god or gods" That's it. Just that. I'd agree too.
However to not believe in something, an idea (god) needs to be proposed to you. You then reject that proposal because there is no evidence to back it up. You refuse to believe.
To not believe is not the same as to not know, just as to believe is not the same as to know. If you are a newborn baby, or feral child, you don't not believe in god, you just don't know of any god.
Do you not believe in something you've never ever thought of? No you just don't know, because you never thought or heard of it. Anyway...not a biggie really.
[quote]Quite right. That is what you were saying. You said all atheists are capable of critical thinking. It's just not true. All atheists do not believe in god and are human, presumably. That is all. [/quote]
All atheists have made a choice. Even if brought up atheist, nobody escapes the tentacles of religion. So there is still a choice to make and evidence to examine, and that needs some reasoning.
[quote]Of course you can. Just because that is how you and I got here means nothing. There is almost certainly an atheist out there who is only atheist because his parents taught him to be. He didn't have to think for himself. He only had to keep disagreeing with theists. [/quote]
We don't want theists to know that.
[quote=Shell]There is no "let's" about it. Such a button is not only logically absurd, but suspension of disbelief does nothing to make it less absurd. Anyone who would push such a button is taking away the freedom of others. The idea is disgusting.
[quote]My outrage? It really gets old when every noob you disagree with pats himself on the back thinking he pissed you off just because you stated your opinion. I'm not angry at all. I am stating my opinion. Just because it runs counter to yours -- I'm disagreeing, in other words -- does not mean I am angry.
[/quote]
Point I was making was not that you disagreed, but that you took my comment too seriously, that's how it felt.
We were talking about an imaginary red button that I said jokingly "no problem", "let's press the button!", which you managed to call "logically absurd" (well yeah!) and "disgusting"
And no, I wasn't patting myself on the back either, it wasn't about getting one over on you, I was just a bit shocked by your reaction actually.
If you feel I have trolled you in some way with the last comment which caused you to say "noob patting yourself on the back", then I apologise. But look at my reaction to yours in context.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
