Destruction of self confidence

[emjay]

I don't know how to follow that, so I won't even try... thanks for sharing

Ever the self immolater. 

I shared, in part...to get it off my chest.  My parents, my real parents, are dying.   To give you a picture of how trying to adhere to the traditional standards offers no real protection from what I think you might have experienced.  You probably have some nugget of wisdom that I don't, as a consequence of how I've been seeking out that standard designation for so long with no reason, no real self possessed and undeniable reason, to do so.  You're not the one following something in this.  That's me, and all that my response was?  My own effort to deserve the candor you've expressed.

So, what's up, what gives, tell me how to untie my own knot by reference to your past experience you bastard.  Who do I have to fucking kill to get the benefit of your wisdom?   Just point and nod. 

(I'm only kidding, btw, except for the pointing and nodding thing.... they'll be dead before you could help me even if you had the answers)

You mention that being able to discuss aquinas and the five ways has, in some sense, rehabilitated this relationship for you.  Well, I've never found anything, and can't think of anything, that could do the same for me.  I'm staring down the barrel of other people's mortality having chased their approval and still looking for a way to get it in all of the ways they always wanted me to and I've never actually done anything else in that respect.  Even though those same people look at me and look at everyone else and see subhumans in others where they see virtue in me...and even if they had another decade for us to hash it out...and even with all of my own history of seeking in the approved manner as a stepping stool...I can't see it happening.

There were many reasons I didn't think I could follow your post, not least because I've realised how poetically/metaphorically... for want of better words, you write, and how similar it was to reading Plato for instance, ie layered like an onion ... where every time I read your posts, I get a new perspective/understanding from it. So for what seems to be a very serious subject, I was worried about misunderstanding some crucial point. Another reason was that although we may have some shared experience here, in a sense, we're also vastly different; you're a man of the world - an ex-soldier and family man - and I'm basically not; very little life experience and still living with my parents in my forties... we couldn't be more different, so I'm doubtful how useful anything I could say would be, but I'll try.

As I said, I may have misunderstood, but the picture you seem to be painting seems very unique, and almost like a Trojan Horse or 'fake it till you make it' upbringing... like mine but kind of inverted?  But just to be clear, were your parents atheists or not? Just trying to understand the seemingingly skeptical/cynical nature behind what you were taught. And then on top of that there's the other issue of your daughter's gender issues, and your own issues with them... which I guess you see as similar to me and my dad, with you in my dad's place and your daughter in mine?

So what can I say? The first obvious thing is that I can have a relationship like this with my parents because I still live with them, whereas you don't, so that's necessarily going to lead to differences in the type of the relationship. My kind of relationship with them is basically friendship, we joke around together and talk a lot, but that obviously is not really possible if you don't live with them. You could also say my life has kind of moulded more towards what they would have wanted... or as we're putting it, that which produces the less conflict and thus potentially cognitive dissonance, ie when I was younger I went to gay clubs a lot more than I do now. But that said, it's not all been one way, as like I said, little steps; I remember going to my first Pride march and thinking about how I was going to broach the subject with my parents... I could either be my usual unassertive self, or I could be assertive... I chose the latter and said firmly and matter of factly, leaving no room for argument 'I'm going to this event', rather than basically asking permission, and surprisingly my dad accepted it without argument. So I guess what I'm saying is we've both compromised in our little ways, over the years. I don't know if that can relate at all to how you relate to your daughter?

As to your parents, and trying to find that bridge, in my case I will never be a traditional success story for my parent's sake, eg I'm never going to get married or give them grandkids, and they know and accept that... but they still love me, even if our family line ends right here, as they've said. All four of my grandparents are dead, so we've been through all the pain of that, and are now our own little unit (as well as my sister, who doesn't live at home) just as how you're talking about how it will be once they have passed. That little unit though, I think in some sense makes you stronger... ie this may be the end of our family line, but we've only got each other now, and going through all that grieving, and helping my parents grieve, brought us closer together. So for one thing, you've got your own family unit now, and I'm sure your parents are very proud of you for that (more than I could ever provide as I said). But if there are still other bridges to mend, I don't know if anything I've said can help? Parents love their kids, it's as simple as that really; I'm no success story, religious expectations or otherwise, but I know my parents love me... I'm sure yours do too. And even if you can't mend some bridges, as I said, you've got your own little unit now to think about. One of the last memories I have of one of my grandads was him looking at me disapprovingly for interrupting a conversation... I wish I could mend that bridge, but I can't... but the focus is now on our little unit.