RE: What makes people irrational thinkers?
December 12, 2021 at 11:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 13, 2021 at 12:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You don't have to have hit any pure vein of truth to recognize that a belief premised on a logical fallacy is explicitly irrational.
Things can be irrational, and useful. Irrational and practically necessary, even - particularly in a culture consequentially organized around a specific belief. Sharing that belief, and very publicly sharing that belief, may be the only thing between you and the executioner. Nevertheless, if you believe a thing is true because many people believe it.....even if that thing is actually true...still irrational.
It's a possibility that we think some belief is irrational, but we're mistaken. The faithful will never fail to insist as much even if you aren't. Yet another irrational belief with utility. That people must be mistaken about or ignorant of some aspect of your belief if they contend your belief is irrational. Ironically, we're better at assessing other's beliefs than our own, so the odds are perpetually against that hope.
In my experience, it's far more often the case that people mound up garbage around their beliefs, making them seem more complicated than they are. For example..I could tell you that I believe I live in the best country in the world. I could insist that we have a months long back and forth about american history and an exhaustive discussion of the current state of affairs relative to other nations. Big words, hard to source but plausibly argued assertions, in fact...just assume that I manage to get through the whole bit without saying anything fundamentally nuts. I wouldn't....but that's what's fun about thought experiments. You might come out the other end thinking I have a well thought out belief (that is - formally so), and that if you wanted to argue it it would be a tough nut to crack. That you should bone up on a b or c.
You'd be wrong. None of that convo has anything to do with my belief in that regard. I feel a certain way when I think about my country - that's it..that's all, that's what the belief is premised upon in mere reality. It's not a tough nut to crack, it's impossible. You couldn't even touch it by arguing any of my million assertions, one or all of which I'm willing to abandon at no cost to that belief.
In my opinion, getting at the reasons for a persons belief requires that the other person put that belief at risk, which is emphatically not what we do with our most firmly held and deeply cherished beliefs.
Things can be irrational, and useful. Irrational and practically necessary, even - particularly in a culture consequentially organized around a specific belief. Sharing that belief, and very publicly sharing that belief, may be the only thing between you and the executioner. Nevertheless, if you believe a thing is true because many people believe it.....even if that thing is actually true...still irrational.
(December 12, 2021 at 4:22 pm)SlowCalculations Wrote: I think i agree, but maybe i agree it's irrational because i don't yet understand everyone's perspectives yet?
It's a possibility that we think some belief is irrational, but we're mistaken. The faithful will never fail to insist as much even if you aren't. Yet another irrational belief with utility. That people must be mistaken about or ignorant of some aspect of your belief if they contend your belief is irrational. Ironically, we're better at assessing other's beliefs than our own, so the odds are perpetually against that hope.
Quote:I spend a lot of time in my own head and yet, no matter how hard i try i still feel like some people on here are talking way beyond what i can comprehend no matter how many new concepts i grasp. i'm getting better but i'm still fairly far behind.
In my experience, it's far more often the case that people mound up garbage around their beliefs, making them seem more complicated than they are. For example..I could tell you that I believe I live in the best country in the world. I could insist that we have a months long back and forth about american history and an exhaustive discussion of the current state of affairs relative to other nations. Big words, hard to source but plausibly argued assertions, in fact...just assume that I manage to get through the whole bit without saying anything fundamentally nuts. I wouldn't....but that's what's fun about thought experiments. You might come out the other end thinking I have a well thought out belief (that is - formally so), and that if you wanted to argue it it would be a tough nut to crack. That you should bone up on a b or c.
You'd be wrong. None of that convo has anything to do with my belief in that regard. I feel a certain way when I think about my country - that's it..that's all, that's what the belief is premised upon in mere reality. It's not a tough nut to crack, it's impossible. You couldn't even touch it by arguing any of my million assertions, one or all of which I'm willing to abandon at no cost to that belief.
In my opinion, getting at the reasons for a persons belief requires that the other person put that belief at risk, which is emphatically not what we do with our most firmly held and deeply cherished beliefs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
