RE: Why did god create evil?
November 27, 2011 at 3:17 am
(This post was last modified: November 27, 2011 at 4:24 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Hey hey, GC figured your post made sense Tack. So I guess you can circle the wagons or start to question your ability to think clearly when the things you offer as explanations seem perfectly reasonable to the crazies.....
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canary_in_a_coal_mine
Here's something fun to mull over;
If we wanted to maintain the integrity of both free will and gods precognitive abilities we could do so "simply" by invoking multiple possible futures (within multiple concurrent realities), god being able to see each one. Since the list of possible futures would be infinite, any particular possible future in which I committed any particular sin by exercising my free will against the wishes of god would be an unimaginably small ratio of all possible futures. In this case I give even less of a shit, seeing as how only infinitely small portions of my total "possible self" are being punished or rewarded for any given thing. Due to that perspective bit you mentioned I am not privy to the state of all of my possible selves or futures, only this one. It would be like sweating bullets over whether or not a single cell in my body just died. Doesn't matter, just another drop in the bucket. But at least it works in the hypothetical. Even after all of this god still created evil, it's his card trick. Your BS explanation of god, his precognitive abilities, and free will (and by proxy the origins of "evil", however the hell you want to define that) seems tiny compared to my BS explanation of the same. I understand that it's easier to attempt to give a concept (or in this case a whole set of concepts) a favorable definition than it would be to demonstrate multiple concurrent realities or futures, and so I won't give you too much shit about how awesome my god is compared to yours. The one you offered up is easier to argue for (albeit equally unsubstantiated) as long as whoever you're arguing with will just roll over and let you play fast and loose with the definitions of difficult concepts. So, credit where it's due.
Any attempt to shift the blame for the nasty bits of creation to some woman eating fruit are pretty childish honestly. I understand that you like the guy, but when somebody pulls a dick move lets just go ahead and call them on it going forward? Rather than blaming anyone who happens to be standing near them when they do it, that is. While we're at it, are we sure it was Eve that fucked up and not Adam? The folks that wrote this narrative weren't exactly paragons of gender equality were they? I think it's more than likely that some misogynist cooked this whole thing up for no other reason than to have a good story that took a jab at the ladies while he was at it. Many birds, one stone. "Explains" all the troubles we have, why it wasn't gods fault, and exactly how women fucked it up for the rest of us. All the while being the kind of story that might just fly at the campfire after the days goat-herding. There are naked people who do nothing but chill in a garden all day oogling at each other and "seeing that it was good", maybe petting some rabbits or something. Frankly I was sold at naked people, and I bet they were too.
Here's another link that might help to explain why I find this particular line of reasoning so dissatisfying. The answer you gave is pretty much a direct lift, which is massively ironic considering the subject. The section on effectiveness helps to explain why god has apparently decided not to use this one again. People wise up quick. I think the lesson learned here, is that you have to treat any dealings with the christian god like a game of tic tac toe with a magician - the only way to win is to refuse to play, and you have to keep in mind that your opponent is a professional liar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocatio...Card_force
(I'm still wondering, btw, why you assume the language and rhetoric of someone who is talking about events that actually occurred with regards to the genesis narrative. As metaphor it's powerful, as history it's trash. Demonstrably so in fact. You do recall that within a few hundred years of being exiled from the garden major cities were claimed to have been founded, and agriculture is claimed to have been engaged in? That's a pretty rough timeline to marry yourself to. One might wonder why we don't find evidence of major cities or agriculture that dates back nearly 100,000 years. Or why we were so dismal at both by the time evidence does materialize, considering our earliest examples should have roughly 90,000 years of practice behind them.)
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canary_in_a_coal_mine
Here's something fun to mull over;
If we wanted to maintain the integrity of both free will and gods precognitive abilities we could do so "simply" by invoking multiple possible futures (within multiple concurrent realities), god being able to see each one. Since the list of possible futures would be infinite, any particular possible future in which I committed any particular sin by exercising my free will against the wishes of god would be an unimaginably small ratio of all possible futures. In this case I give even less of a shit, seeing as how only infinitely small portions of my total "possible self" are being punished or rewarded for any given thing. Due to that perspective bit you mentioned I am not privy to the state of all of my possible selves or futures, only this one. It would be like sweating bullets over whether or not a single cell in my body just died. Doesn't matter, just another drop in the bucket. But at least it works in the hypothetical. Even after all of this god still created evil, it's his card trick. Your BS explanation of god, his precognitive abilities, and free will (and by proxy the origins of "evil", however the hell you want to define that) seems tiny compared to my BS explanation of the same. I understand that it's easier to attempt to give a concept (or in this case a whole set of concepts) a favorable definition than it would be to demonstrate multiple concurrent realities or futures, and so I won't give you too much shit about how awesome my god is compared to yours. The one you offered up is easier to argue for (albeit equally unsubstantiated) as long as whoever you're arguing with will just roll over and let you play fast and loose with the definitions of difficult concepts. So, credit where it's due.
Any attempt to shift the blame for the nasty bits of creation to some woman eating fruit are pretty childish honestly. I understand that you like the guy, but when somebody pulls a dick move lets just go ahead and call them on it going forward? Rather than blaming anyone who happens to be standing near them when they do it, that is. While we're at it, are we sure it was Eve that fucked up and not Adam? The folks that wrote this narrative weren't exactly paragons of gender equality were they? I think it's more than likely that some misogynist cooked this whole thing up for no other reason than to have a good story that took a jab at the ladies while he was at it. Many birds, one stone. "Explains" all the troubles we have, why it wasn't gods fault, and exactly how women fucked it up for the rest of us. All the while being the kind of story that might just fly at the campfire after the days goat-herding. There are naked people who do nothing but chill in a garden all day oogling at each other and "seeing that it was good", maybe petting some rabbits or something. Frankly I was sold at naked people, and I bet they were too.
Here's another link that might help to explain why I find this particular line of reasoning so dissatisfying. The answer you gave is pretty much a direct lift, which is massively ironic considering the subject. The section on effectiveness helps to explain why god has apparently decided not to use this one again. People wise up quick. I think the lesson learned here, is that you have to treat any dealings with the christian god like a game of tic tac toe with a magician - the only way to win is to refuse to play, and you have to keep in mind that your opponent is a professional liar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocatio...Card_force
(I'm still wondering, btw, why you assume the language and rhetoric of someone who is talking about events that actually occurred with regards to the genesis narrative. As metaphor it's powerful, as history it's trash. Demonstrably so in fact. You do recall that within a few hundred years of being exiled from the garden major cities were claimed to have been founded, and agriculture is claimed to have been engaged in? That's a pretty rough timeline to marry yourself to. One might wonder why we don't find evidence of major cities or agriculture that dates back nearly 100,000 years. Or why we were so dismal at both by the time evidence does materialize, considering our earliest examples should have roughly 90,000 years of practice behind them.)
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