(September 5, 2022 at 7:37 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:(September 5, 2022 at 5:41 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Again, Helios pretending he won without actually responding to any of my points. May as well have just posted a cute gif like usual.
And "you're either with us or you're against us." Where else have we heard that line of reasoning? NFL players kneeling to the national anthem, maybe? They got the same pushback. I know you may not like it much, but being a member of a Western democracy means you get to have an opinion on matters, and that doesn't make you a traitor to your country or your allies.
IA, I don’t doubt that the Ukrainians want peace. Thing is, I (and the rest of us) think that Ukraine wants their own sovereignty more. They don’t want to be a part of Russia. And Putin, on the other hand, is convinced that Ukraine belongs under Russian control. And we know this because Vladimir Putin has said so multiple times. you say you support treaties. Do you really think Putin will?
You think the French Resistance in WW2 just wanted to fight the Nazis just for the Hell of it? You think DeGaulle would have just taken the first offer of peace the Nazis would have given, especially if it meant that France would still be under the control of the Vichy Regime and the Third Reich?
Yes, you have the right to your own opinion (especially if it’s not a dangerous risk to the public health), but that freedom goes both ways. You have the right to insist that the Ukrainians should have just taken the peace offer with Russia, and the rest of us have the right to call bullshit on your argument. That’s how free speech works.
President Zelenskyy said he didn't tell his people about the imminent invasion, because there would have been a mass exodus and Russia would have taken Ukraine in 3 days, which sounds a little bit like the opposite of wanting to stay and fight for your country, but who's to say I guess. I linked this story to Helios sometime in the past hour I think, if you're interested in looking at that.
I don't trust Putin, but sometimes you have to take leaps of faith, because you'll never know and get things accomplished if you don't at least try.
That's fine about what you said about the free speech, but not really relevant to this forum where there doesn't have to be free speech. And I'm not the one calling other people traitors for having a different opinion. That's others. Not me. And like I said, a logical case can be made for interference by the West in the war in Ukraine, but people should be honest about why that is. Like Boru pointed out a couple days ago, wars are about geopolitics, and the media talking points about the supposed reasoning for these wars can be ignored and brushed aside by any thinking person. Of course, I would have immediately been called a conspiracy theorist for pointing that out, but I'm glad Boru did so the heat is taken off of me a bit on that point.
