Russia and Ukraine

[The Architect Of Fate]

The mainstream media on both sides has created its own bizarre alternate reality. Those in their respective propaganda bubbles have extremely distorted views of reality. I don't know how true this is in your part of the world, but I know it's true in the US and other areas where the pro-US corporate media lie all the time. 

So we have to be careful. 

There is no comparison between the US media and Russia's state media on Ukraine. The latter is living in the twilight zone of coping and denial.

It's certainly true that Ukraine has a big Nazi problem. And that the US is handing them weapons. I am skeptical that Putin got involved specifically to attack these Nazis. Rather, what the Ukrainians (including some Nazis) were doing to the Russian-speaking populations was an obvious casus belli. 

I don't know what you mean about drug addicts. I have not seen this mentioned. 

Ukraine doesn't have any more of a Nazi problem anywhere else in Eastern Europe and the treatment of Russian speakers in Ukraine (who have suffered way worst under Russian occupation) has been exaggerated by pro-Kremlin bullshitters.

We just have to be very careful and evaluate each claim. 

You have not done this you have blindly recited Pro Russian talking points that have me 2 minutes of research to debunk.

The US propaganda bubble has included lots of claims about Russia which have quietly been retracted later on. For example, that Hillary Clinton lost the election due to Russian interference. Or that Trump had such close ties with Russia that they could control him. These things were loudly reported for a while, and then retracted in much quieter voices.

Actually, it isn't. Russia most definitely interfered in the election to what amount that crippled Hilary's campaign is up for debate. Trump has close ties to Russia and Russia obviously pulled his strings multiple times throughout his presidency and note you give no examples of these quieter voices and why anyone should give a damn about their opinions....

Even some of the things that Trump said, as we were all laughing at him, turned out to be true. For example he made a speech saying that Germany was overly dependent on the Russian gas pipelines. When he said that all the German delegates laughed openly. But it turned out to be true, because now that the gas is unavailable, the Germans are complaining that the gas the US is selling them is wildly expensive. It really is going to harm German industry terribly. Recently Trump said that the war in Ukraine was provoked by the US, and that is also completely true. I don't know who tells Trump what to say, but sometimes they get it right.

Nothing Trump said turned out to be true. Your example about Germany fails as it was already debunked earlier. Yes, Germany is not happy about Russia turning the taps off but the idea Germany is going to be crippled by it is just silly. So another lie you have fallen for. And no Ukraine didn't provoke anything nor did the US so that's also a lie. So Trump like you is full of it.

I have no respect for the LePen family or Meloni. I do have respect for those few independent journalists who do not believe that Putin is 100 Hitler brains in a Godzilla body. He is doing exactly what it was predicted he would do, when the US took its provocative steps. His response has been far more limited than it could have been. These most recent attacks on Kiev, for example, are exactly the sort of thing that the US does on the first day when it attacks a nation. 

By independent media, you mean loons with no clue what they are talking about. The US did nothing "provocative" Putin has always wanted Ukraine and Russia's opening gambit wasn't remotely "limited" it was haphazard and poorly executed and in no way resembles America's first-day operations. This wasn't Russian restraint it was Russian overconfidence and incompetence plain and simple.

So I acknowledge that both sides live in propaganda bubbles. The US-backed narrative is ridiculously simplified so as to make Putin and Russia into irrational madmen. And that is what gets repeated on this forum. People repeat the propaganda slogans to each other, and feel like as if they're in the right. And this leads them to cheer when people die.

Nope, one is living in the reality of Ukraine the other is living in La La Land with a gun firmly mounted to their heads if they say anything the regime doesn't like. This false equivalency fails ....

If I make any specific claim which you feel is wrong, please address that. I'd be happy to see objective reporting from other sources, as the sources I see are also not perfect. It's an ongoing process of weighing and sifting. 

Buddy we have been debunking your claims on this thread left and right ......

Thank you again for responding with such kindness. It's a pleasure to talk with people who can do this in a grown-up way.

Lol yeah, it's totally not grown up to call out your nonsense and then actually back it up with evidence. You really are a condensing ass....