(May 6, 2023 at 6:08 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: You are AOK with Russia getting away with annexing land just as I am. Crimea. Do you want to send in US troops to take back Crimea? No? Then you're ok with Russia annexing them, and you and I are not as different as you think. You do support awarding aggression with land. Unless, again, you want to send in US troops to take back Crimea by force.
Wrong. I am fine with Ukrainians retaking Crimea even as I don't wish to deploy American troops for that job. Put shortly, this is an excluded-middle fallacy on your part. One can support Ukraine's fight without pushing for American combat involvement -- and you will struggle long and hard to find any quote of mine supporting that. But go on, go look for it and link to what you find.
(May 6, 2023 at 6:08 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: China being pro-Russia is a good thing for peace talks. China need not be objective. It might scare Ukraine into coming to terms quicker, because Ukraine is looking over their shoulder right now thinking China might supply weapons to Russia. This gives Ukraine even more of a reason to come to peace, and at least China is trying to reach a peace deal, unlike the US.
Or it might make Ukraine think that it must score a victory now, which is likely what you fear. The idea that Ukraine might accept Chinese mediation, in the absence of a major Russian victory that endangers Ukrainian war aims, is naive, to put it kindly. A Chinese offer now, when the Russians are shooting themselves in the feet and their only friend is in fact China, would be spurned in Kyiv -- and rightly so -- for the bullshit it is.
Even if the Ukrainians lose on the field of battle, which I doubt will happen, but let's entertain that thought for a moment -- even if their army did lose, the ensuing insurgency would and will collapse Russia's government just as insurgency in Afghanistan brought about the end of the Soviet Union. If Russia wanted Chinese intervention in peace talks, why are they still launching missiles?
The Chinese proposal has little to do with Ukraine, and much to do with China wanting to see itself as some sort of arbiter. But they cannot project force into Ukraine, nor can they leverage either party to the table.So this is a stage-show.
