RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
July 15, 2023 at 11:49 am
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2023 at 11:58 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 15, 2023 at 11:46 am)Loaded dice Wrote:Why? As I already suggested, you are not actually arguing with me. Neither of us believes in gods as necessary beings.(July 15, 2023 at 11:29 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It looks like you've decided that god is wrong, rather than submit to the possibility that you are wrong. As I suggested, you believe in something other than god. Something smaller. Something that is not necessary. A guy with superpowers.
Show me even half of a verse in the Qur'an, or the Bible, or any religious book, with the word "logically necessary" in it. It's a purely philosophical concept that may or may not apply to traditional belief systems.
And a necessary being isn't needed to fulfill theism's even most radical claims: An all powerful but contingent being is enough to create this world and make an afterlife and everything else that the religious believe in.
So, even if I conceive of God as an all-powerful or omniscient being, it still doesn't follow that He's logically necessary.
Quote:[/quote](July 15, 2023 at 11:29 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I fully endorse this belief, mind you. I think it's about a thousand times more honest than any of that necessary being bullshit...though it's equally false. I'll be counting on you as a partner in crime the next time some nutter shows up babbling about arguments from necessity or conceivability.
Some of these argument are pretty strong, like Avicenna's contingency argument. but probably it resembles some ontological argument or may be equivalent to it. Regardless, a theist won't need any of these, we can have an inductive argument for an all-powerful all knowing deity and that's fine.
An all powerful all knowing deity that is not necessary, that is not the god of the philosophers™...anyway - avicennas god included. You already shut the door on that. I'm sure you have tons of bad arguments for your smaller gods, too. That much has never been in doubt, at least not by me..so even here we aren't arguing.
I honestly don't think you guys need any arguments for your belief. Which is convenient, judging by the quality of the arguments you offer. If you really needed them..if they even mattered to you, in actuality, rather than performatively, you and your gods would all be fucked. Or maybe that's just you burdening god again.
The truly interesting thing, for me, above, is that you've described the experience of being compelled by an argument you don't believe in, premised on a god that cannot exist...and all according to you.
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