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Why Agnostic?
#53
RE: Why Agnostic?
(July 5, 2009 at 6:33 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Imo there is a difference between fundamental agnosticism (we not only do not know now, but we will never know in the furure) and technical agnosticism. Fundamental agnosticism is absolute in nature. Isn't it strange to claim the absolute with a word that expresses doubt?
I don't quite understand your last question. How does agnosticism use a word of "doubt" to express a absolute concept? Unless you are combining definitions perhaps?
Quote:You seem to give priority to original defintion (Huxley) above common use of the word. I see no specific reason for that. The waterfall of homonyms after Huxley is not an indication of clarity of his definition.
I think priority should always fall on the original meaning unless a good reason can be made to change it. In the case of agnosticism, I don't see what that reason could be. It is a good word, based off "gnosticism" (which stated that certain spiritual truths are known), and added the "a" as a negating letter, leaving you with "certain spiritual truths are not known". Huxley further explained that agnosticism should also be a position that certain truths can never be known, due to the nature of these truths (i.e. because non-omniscient people cannot test the omniscience of so called "gods"). Perhaps it is just a lifetime of people getting misconceptions and sharing them, who knows? I suspect it was people taking the definitive "Do you know if God exists?" question of agnosticism and replacing it with "Do you know if you believe?" which tends to be the most popular misdefinition of the word.

(July 5, 2009 at 6:06 pm)Tiberius Wrote: That's not the reading of my example that I intended. My emphasis should be:
"Am I being agnostic when I doubt if it is me typing this?" Meaning: would I use the word agnostic when the word 'doubtful' or 'not absolute certain' says it all.
No, you wouldn't. Agnosticism has nothing to do with doubt or certainty. It is a question of knowledge rather than a question of how strongly you believe or trust something.


(July 5, 2009 at 6:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No it isn't. No one can 'know' so it doesn't work. AA's descriptions are the only accurate ones.
Some people claim they can, through spiritual experience etc. Some Christians argue that the word "Christian" means one who "knows" God, which is bullshit, but reveals them as gnostics.
Quote:You are all gnostic atheists and I'm a gnostic theist. We have conclusively established existence or non existence.
I have not conclusively established god's non-existence. I have concluded that there is not enough evidence to make me believe, but that is completely different.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 2, 2009 at 9:46 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Darwinian - July 2, 2009 at 9:48 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Eilonnwy - July 2, 2009 at 9:59 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 2, 2009 at 10:11 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Eilonnwy - July 2, 2009 at 10:28 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 2, 2009 at 10:51 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Eilonnwy - July 5, 2009 at 12:47 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 5, 2009 at 1:58 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 11:34 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 2, 2009 at 12:00 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 12:26 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 2, 2009 at 12:59 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 2, 2009 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 1:29 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 2, 2009 at 1:42 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 1:50 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 2, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by bozo - July 2, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 2, 2009 at 4:29 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 2, 2009 at 7:20 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 4, 2009 at 6:32 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 4, 2009 at 8:33 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Edwardo Piet - July 2, 2009 at 6:42 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 8:05 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 2, 2009 at 9:36 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 20, 2009 at 3:42 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 2, 2009 at 10:32 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 3, 2009 at 12:12 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 3, 2009 at 12:49 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 3, 2009 at 1:40 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 3, 2009 at 3:25 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 3, 2009 at 7:16 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 3, 2009 at 9:24 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 3, 2009 at 1:08 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 4, 2009 at 6:38 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 4, 2009 at 9:20 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 5, 2009 at 10:54 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 5, 2009 at 4:42 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 4, 2009 at 2:26 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 5, 2009 at 5:22 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 3:07 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 5, 2009 at 4:56 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 5, 2009 at 5:57 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 5, 2009 at 11:44 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 4:45 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 5:46 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by leo-rcc - July 5, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 5, 2009 at 5:55 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 5:56 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 5, 2009 at 6:12 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 5, 2009 at 6:37 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 6:06 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 5, 2009 at 6:33 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 6:25 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 6, 2009 at 2:31 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 6, 2009 at 4:46 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 6:00 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 6, 2009 at 6:06 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 6:16 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 6, 2009 at 6:49 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 5, 2009 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 6, 2009 at 2:26 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 11:43 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by leo-rcc - July 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 6, 2009 at 5:13 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 6, 2009 at 5:59 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 6, 2009 at 8:42 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by leo-rcc - July 6, 2009 at 12:49 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by leo-rcc - July 6, 2009 at 2:22 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 6, 2009 at 4:00 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tsuyoiko - July 7, 2009 at 4:52 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 7, 2009 at 11:00 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 7, 2009 at 1:20 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 7, 2009 at 5:30 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 7, 2009 at 4:03 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 8, 2009 at 9:33 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 7, 2009 at 9:03 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 8, 2009 at 1:46 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 8, 2009 at 10:37 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 8, 2009 at 2:52 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 8, 2009 at 4:50 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 8, 2009 at 5:14 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 8, 2009 at 5:33 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 9, 2009 at 1:36 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 9, 2009 at 7:22 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Edwardo Piet - July 9, 2009 at 9:43 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 9, 2009 at 7:40 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by padraic - July 11, 2009 at 9:28 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 11, 2009 at 9:58 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 9, 2009 at 12:24 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Edwardo Piet - July 9, 2009 at 4:26 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 9, 2009 at 4:00 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 9, 2009 at 8:47 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 10, 2009 at 1:27 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 10, 2009 at 1:58 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 11, 2009 at 4:40 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 10, 2009 at 2:12 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 11, 2009 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 11, 2009 at 9:01 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 11, 2009 at 11:30 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 12, 2009 at 4:26 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by padraic - July 12, 2009 at 6:18 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 12, 2009 at 6:42 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 12, 2009 at 7:51 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 12, 2009 at 9:53 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 12, 2009 at 10:02 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 12, 2009 at 12:31 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 4:18 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 13, 2009 at 7:14 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by leo-rcc - July 13, 2009 at 7:19 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 15, 2009 at 6:00 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 12:16 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 13, 2009 at 3:48 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 13, 2009 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 4:47 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 13, 2009 at 5:07 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 6:13 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 13, 2009 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 14, 2009 at 8:09 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 13, 2009 at 6:25 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 7:09 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 13, 2009 at 8:20 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 14, 2009 at 1:44 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 14, 2009 at 8:13 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 15, 2009 at 2:20 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 14, 2009 at 11:40 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by fr0d0 - July 14, 2009 at 4:24 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 14, 2009 at 5:35 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 14, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by LEDO - July 14, 2009 at 9:06 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 14, 2009 at 8:19 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 15, 2009 at 11:00 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 16, 2009 at 5:22 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 18, 2009 at 3:05 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 15, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 15, 2009 at 2:55 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 15, 2009 at 3:56 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by bozo - July 15, 2009 at 6:37 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 16, 2009 at 9:15 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 16, 2009 at 2:03 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 20, 2009 at 3:53 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 20, 2009 at 12:05 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 20, 2009 at 9:53 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Rhizomorph13 - July 16, 2009 at 2:15 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Purple Rabbit - July 16, 2009 at 3:18 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 16, 2009 at 7:48 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 21, 2009 at 2:27 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Kyuuketsuki - July 21, 2009 at 3:22 pm
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 21, 2009 at 6:10 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Tiberius - July 21, 2009 at 6:21 am
RE: Why Agnostic? - by Ryft - July 21, 2009 at 6:44 am

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