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IF There Was God...
#56
RE: IF There Was God...
(June 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 16, 2024 at 3:29 pm)Questor Wrote: There are no second generation believers in Messiah, as it is not an inherited trait. And I have no knowledge of what wiccans physically pass down to their children.

Christianity is a religion that sprang from a denomination of Judaism, and hybridized away from it rather a lot after the first century, falling into open idolatry. To me, and many other Jews that follow Yeshua, some, if not all, forms of that religion have adopted pagan Greek and Roman notions that are in direct contravention to Torah, which observant Jews attempt to follow. Yeshua was a Torah abiding Jew, and so were his Jewish followers until they had died out, or gone underground, avoiding the persecution by Christians in the second century onwards. 

Many non-Jewish believers do attempt to follow Torah, even as I do, and in truth none of us do it well, but once a Gentile believer in Yeshua resolves to do so, they have become god-fearers, proselytes to Judaism, who are leaving the gentile pagan world behind bit by bit.
 
Jewish believers in Yeshua are merely walking in the ways of their fathers, and remain Jews, who then, of their own desire, choose to follow Yeshua, and trust in him as their Messiah.

Specifically, to which ‘pagan Greek and Roman notions’ are you referring, how how do they contravene Torah?

If Jesus was a ‘Torah abiding Jew’, how do you explain his breaking of the Fourth Commandment as well as several of the misvot?

Boru

A belief that there are more than one god and the customs of worship of those gods are the source of Greco-Roman pagan traditions that taint much of what are Christian traditions. They do not end in the Greek or Roman Empires, but as the ideas of what became Christianity moved from Asia into Europe, they picked up whatever local gods were worshiped in each area, and merged them with what they had been taught, both from political convenience and necessity, as well as a real desire to take local expressions and adherence to the worship of well-known gods, and see similarities in Christianity. Festivals to Greco-Roman gods were mandatory, and soon were merged with what had been Jewish Festivals. Passover became Easter, a modified worship of Astoreth, and Succot became Christmas, with the worship of Mithras and the celebrations of Saturnalia, in addition to taking the story of Yeshua’s birth, and making it more important than what Yeshua did on the stake. But then, Christianity ran from Judaism as soon as local laws came into conflict with it.

 
Idolatry was not merely a matter of bowing down before a carved image, but even the consumption of meats sacrificed to a foreign god was treif, and forbidden to Jews. To this day, an observant Jew does not drink wine that is not certified to have been made with dedicating it to a foreign god, or consume anthing else, as was anything used in the worship of a foreign god, such as any product or necessity sold in the marketplace had to be assumed to have been done so, and to Kosher abiding jews, still is.
And it was generally illegal to not recognize, and offer worship to the local gods, and of course, the Roman Emperor.
 
Even not working on Shabbat could be an excuse to persecute the local synagogue, while not keeping the other Moedim (God decreed appointments) such as the High Holy Days and the celebrations of the first day of each Biblical month as modified Shabbatot pretty much guaranteed that Judaism would be submerged beneath local traditions in the dispersion.
 
And of course, intermarriage with non-Jewish men or women occurred all too regularly, as it does today, breaking yet one more of the mitzvot of the Torah.

In regard to Yeshua’s having broken any commandment, you would need to specify which commandments you presume that he broke, and where the supposed transgressions occurred, with chapter and verse. I have a good grasp of the Apostolic Writings, but not an encyclopedic knowledge of them.
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Messages In This Thread
IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 2, 2024 at 12:17 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 2, 2024 at 12:18 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - February 2, 2024 at 12:22 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ravenshire - February 2, 2024 at 1:16 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Jackalope - February 2, 2024 at 1:56 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 2, 2024 at 4:08 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - February 2, 2024 at 4:33 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2024 at 10:40 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Anomalocaris - February 2, 2024 at 11:20 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Fake Messiah - February 2, 2024 at 11:49 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 2, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Astreja - February 5, 2024 at 11:01 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - February 2, 2024 at 4:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 4, 2024 at 3:00 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 4, 2024 at 3:02 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 4, 2024 at 3:43 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - February 4, 2024 at 6:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 4, 2024 at 8:53 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ravenshire - February 4, 2024 at 9:46 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 5, 2024 at 5:42 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - February 5, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Astreja - February 5, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - February 5, 2024 at 3:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - February 5, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 2, 2024 at 4:53 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 2, 2024 at 10:34 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 2, 2024 at 11:04 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Jackalope - February 2, 2024 at 11:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by zebo-the-fat - February 2, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 4, 2024 at 9:20 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 4, 2024 at 9:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:25 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - February 5, 2024 at 5:47 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - February 5, 2024 at 6:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by arewethereyet - February 5, 2024 at 6:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Prycejosh1987 - June 12, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 15, 2024 at 7:31 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 15, 2024 at 7:40 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - June 15, 2024 at 12:43 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 15, 2024 at 5:51 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 16, 2024 at 4:26 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 11:32 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 18, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 6:41 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:45 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 3:25 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 12:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 1:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 2:12 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 1:39 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 2:29 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 3:29 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 4:26 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 8:32 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 5:24 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Paleophyte - June 20, 2024 at 3:24 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - June 17, 2024 at 12:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Rev. Rye - June 16, 2024 at 4:19 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2024 at 2:17 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 4:20 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - June 22, 2024 at 4:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 4:42 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 5:08 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 6:59 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 7:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 7:48 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 8:16 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 10:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 4:37 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 2:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 3:09 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 3:16 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 3:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 6:36 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 7:04 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - June 22, 2024 at 9:38 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - June 22, 2024 at 7:51 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - June 22, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 11:55 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 12:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 1:03 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:42 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 1:45 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:22 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 2:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:31 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 3:40 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 1:05 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:47 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Paleophyte - June 23, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2024 at 1:13 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 2:31 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 2:37 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2024 at 3:27 pm

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