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IF There Was God...
#98
RE: IF There Was God...
(June 23, 2024 at 2:23 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 23, 2024 at 1:27 pm)Questor Wrote: Without further information, I have to presume you are stating that YHWH hardened the heart of Pharoah, and thus interfered with his free will.

Hardening a purpose already within the heart of any person who has lived their entire lives being fully satisfied with that purpose is not interference with his free will. It is more a coming into agreement with it, as if to say, "Okay, you want it that way, you get it that way!" And then, he used the Pharoah's mindset and desires to make some very splashy evidences of his existence.

Had Pharoah had any real softening towards the fate of the Israelites, it would have showed in changed behavior past the immediate relief of the most recent plague.

YHWH only wanted his people out of Eqypt. Had Pharoah had the least intention of allowing the Israelites to leave, he could have held to any of his original negotiations with G-d. He did not, and he, and all his people suffered because of it.

YHWH gave us freewill, and the consequences that go with them. What he chooses not to do, is to force anyone into relationship with him.

Pharaoh had offered to let the Israelites go. It was God, not Pharaoh, who changed his mind. This was a direct interference with free will.

Boru

You realy need to read the entirety of the exchange from Exodus 5 onwards, and study what it was that Pharoah said, and then what he did. Pharoah never offered to let all the Israelites leave Eqypt, but only the men of Israel, holding their wives and children hostage for their return.

From Ex 7:8 onwards, it became a test of will, G-d showing his power, and Pharoah ignoring it, or pleading for clemency, promising to let the Israelites go, and then refusing to do so once the penalties were lifted. Pharoah was not exactly showing himself to be a man of his word.

Did YHWH harden Pharoah's heart once the contest was on? Of course. He promised to do so. Did he make the Pharoah's heart hard to begin with? No. 

During the first five plagues, Pharoah follows his own heart, and hardens it as he chooses. But in the last five plagues, God increases the hardness of Pharaoh’s already hard heart. 

We can choose our own way, and suffer the consequences. If we continue to make poor choices, God eventually turns us over to our own nature.
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Messages In This Thread
IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 2, 2024 at 12:17 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 2, 2024 at 12:18 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - February 2, 2024 at 12:22 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ravenshire - February 2, 2024 at 1:16 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Jackalope - February 2, 2024 at 1:56 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 2, 2024 at 4:08 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - February 2, 2024 at 4:33 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2024 at 10:40 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Anomalocaris - February 2, 2024 at 11:20 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Fake Messiah - February 2, 2024 at 11:49 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 2, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Astreja - February 5, 2024 at 11:01 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - February 2, 2024 at 4:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 4, 2024 at 3:00 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 4, 2024 at 3:02 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 4, 2024 at 3:43 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - February 4, 2024 at 6:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by ronedee - February 4, 2024 at 8:53 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ravenshire - February 4, 2024 at 9:46 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 5, 2024 at 5:42 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - February 5, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Astreja - February 5, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - February 5, 2024 at 3:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - February 5, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 2, 2024 at 4:53 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - February 2, 2024 at 10:34 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 2, 2024 at 11:04 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Jackalope - February 2, 2024 at 11:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by zebo-the-fat - February 2, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 4, 2024 at 9:20 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Nay_Sayer - February 4, 2024 at 9:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - February 4, 2024 at 9:25 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - February 5, 2024 at 5:47 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - February 5, 2024 at 6:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by arewethereyet - February 5, 2024 at 6:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Prycejosh1987 - June 12, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 15, 2024 at 7:31 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 15, 2024 at 7:40 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - June 15, 2024 at 12:43 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 15, 2024 at 5:51 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 16, 2024 at 4:26 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 11:32 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 18, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 6:41 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:45 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 3:25 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 12:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 1:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 2:12 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 1:39 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 2:29 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 16, 2024 at 3:29 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 4:26 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 8:32 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 18, 2024 at 5:24 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Paleophyte - June 20, 2024 at 3:24 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Mister Agenda - June 17, 2024 at 12:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Rev. Rye - June 16, 2024 at 4:19 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2024 at 2:17 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 4:20 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by no one - June 22, 2024 at 4:18 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 4:42 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 5:08 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 6:59 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 7:30 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 7:48 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 8:16 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 22, 2024 at 10:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 4:37 am
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 2:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 3:09 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 3:16 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 3:23 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 6:36 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 7:04 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by h4ym4n - June 22, 2024 at 9:38 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 22, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - June 22, 2024 at 7:51 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Silver - June 22, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 11:55 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 12:44 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 1:03 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:42 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 1:45 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:22 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 2:27 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:31 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by brewer - June 23, 2024 at 3:40 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 1:05 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 1:47 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Paleophyte - June 23, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2024 at 1:13 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Questor - June 23, 2024 at 2:14 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 2:31 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2024 at 2:37 pm
RE: IF There Was God... - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2024 at 3:27 pm

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