(May 17, 2025 at 9:57 pm)Alan V Wrote:(May 17, 2025 at 3:26 pm)emjay Wrote: Ie you can talk about all the cool things our brains can do, or 'we' can do in consciousness, but it's all in my view still ultimately achieved by and represented in physical neurons and thus determined by physical laws.
Every single machine works by the laws of physics, yet they can do very different things. So the laws of physics do not, in fact, determine what they do. Their specific designs do, which are built upon the laws of physics. And the human brain has multiple modules to perform different functions. So you are not addressing such questions at the appropriate level of complexity, and the human brain is just about the most complex single object in the known universe.
(May 17, 2025 at 3:26 pm)emjay Wrote: I think it basically comes down to... whether you consider consciousness 'epiphenomenal' or not.
Consciousness was evolved to perform specific functions in real-world circumstances. It can be epiphenomenal, as when we dream at night or when we are watching a show or listening to music, since those are not apparently among its originally evolved functions.
Perhaps I will explain in more detail when I have the time to reference the science involved.
No need to expand, I think I want to leave it there. We just go round in circles, that's what we do, as I said I just think it is futile us trying to get on the same page on this. I respect your opinion but it's not one I think I can ever share, I'm sorry to say, we just frame the world too differently. I hope you can accept that; I still respect you very much but this conversation is just not for me.
