US Strikes on Iran (Operation Epic Fury)

[Leonardo17]

Thumpalumpagus:
 
- The Middle-East
 
Ivan Denisovich:
 
I read about the Anti-Trump and Anti Netanyahu rallies in Paris and Spain today.




 
It is good to see that people in the West have empathy for the people of this region.  
 
We still need a plan for the future of Israel. If the Israelis still have feeling of insecurity they may vote for even more extremist leaders in the next election.
 
It’s about breaking the cycle of violence now. And I don’t know how this is going to happen with the current US government. I think that China + Europe will have to step in at some point like France is trying to do right now in Lebanon.
 
By the way, did D. Trump just declare victory and move out of the war?
 
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/...p-03-23-26
 
“Country you defend so ardently gave itself that "right". That's what happen when murderous regimes aren't stopped.”
 
- Yes but that country has been under siege since the day it was created. All Arab countries in the region see it as an intrusive element and it was only recently that some Arab countries started to approve their very right to exist. Israelis too are human beings like the rest of us. All I am saying is that an inclusive solution is needed here.
 
“Iran is victim of israel aggression no matter how unpalatable it's regime. I don't like Iran but you have hate boner toward it for some reason.”
 
- Iran’s regime was problematic even before 1979. But remember the first thing they did in 79. They sacked the US embassy and took all the Americans there as hostages.
 
Ex: They still randomly arrest French and other European who did nothing to them and use them as bargaining chips to obtain the release of their spires, terrorists and propagandists in Europe.
 
All of these are acts of war.
 
And a note on the burning of US / Israeli flags. In WWI the Greeks had done a lot of that to our flag. But when the city of İzmir was freed in 1922, the founder of our republic refused to disrespect the flag of a then enemy country in this way.
 
The IRI is not a regime that seeks peace. There isn’t a single element of doubt in that.
 
“We aren't in  60's or 70's. Knowledge of Stalin and Hitler crimes is freely available.”
 
- True.
 
“It wouldn't be the first time when many people believed in lies. Especially when they lived elsewhere not in "paradise" they supposedly dreamt off.”
 
- As I said, I still support some of these ideals. While being completely sober of some of the myths that the generations before me were believing rather blindly
 
“Wow. It only took you however many posts to show some basic decency.”
 
- No. Let’s say both of us have missed each other’s points in our first few messages to one another.
 
“Your "message" is one of absolving israel of blame so I reject it. I never wrote about Hezbollah if I recall correctly but Hamas dudes are freedom fighters fighting against genocidal regime. They might use unpalatable tactics but partisans fighting with nazis also weren't lily white in their deeds.
 
Also "your terrorists are our freedom fighters". I simply happen to understand that violence and oppression will result in violent resistance and I blame Hamas not a tit as israel have monstrous crimes on what passes for it's conscience. It's absurdity to expect that oppressed answer will be measured when they suffer daily.”
 
- I disagree. Hamas is an extremist organization that was created by Israel to subdue all of the more civilized / rational movement of Palestinian resistance. And Iran controls this very organization to attack Israel. So young Israelis are dying at the Nova music festival and Palestinians have their lives reduced to rubble because of that.
 
You are not seeing that both elements are actually killing us there. I think you need to sober up on that too.
 
“So we need israel to be stopped. They aren't world police, nor they have licence to kill.”
 
No. There needs to be elections in Israel, and there has to be a Palestinian authority that has a degree of military power. And the two need to sit on the table with yet a different US President so that a new Oslo-Accord is signed.
 
See right now, the Gazans don’t even have houses anymore.
 
So criticizing is good. But we need solutions too.
 
Personally: I don’t thin these people should even live there anymore. I think Egypt should take them and let the Israeli put the whole place in their b… if this makes them happy
 
“I know that Hamas was supported by israel.”
 
- And that’s a key part in their strategy. If you get the other side to act like animals then you can say to the whole world “These guys are not humans, and that’s why I am taking everything they have and give them nothing in return”
 
- There are very evil forces at work here. And there is no solution as long as we can identify these evil actors and neutralize them to some degree.
 
“I don't know about this alleged "political islam". What I do know is that israel is guilty of genocide while Iran wasn't credibly (or at all to the best of my knowledge) accused of it and that israel started war so it's criminal in chief can postpone trial for corruption (if I recall news correctly).”
 
Both sides have politicized religious faith. The Messianic Jews and their Messianic Christian supporters.
 
These are two twisted religious interpretation that have brought chaos to the whole region since 1949. If all of them simply denied their religious faith the problem would end within hours.
 
“No. You ascribe whatever evils you can to Iran while saying that SU wasn't really evil. You make up imagined scenarios with Iran as a bad guy (Iran wouldn't have backed off in Cuba missile crisis). You're obsessed with it. Fact however is that no matter how bad Iran is it is still miles better than israel as it is israel that is guilty of genocide not Iran.”
 
- Once we have both learned one another’s position on these subjects we can just approve of that and move to the next topic.


 
 
 
 
Thumpalumpagus:
 
“...
If Leonardo wants to hunt up apologia for war-criminals let him sleep in the bed Erdogan has made for him. Because it appears the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree here. Autocrats gonna cozy up.”
 
- Me and my friends have been tear gazed by Erdogans police. Let’s not go there
 
The issue is this. There are being waves of popular unrest in Iran since the “Arab Sprin” in the 2010s. Each time these (very brave) Iranians are taking to the streets and each time the regime is repressing them by hanging them or killing them directly in the streets.
 
And Iranian activists in the West are begging us to shut down our embassies, add the IRG to the list of terrorist organizations, isolate Iran in the international scene and intervene in Iran if this is what it takes to end this brutal regime. They are even brandishing flag of the previous monarchy regime which (I’m reminding you) wasn’t that popular at the time either. But the main message here is that people have had it.
 
And this isn’t Israeli propaganda. Netanyahu seems to be willing to us this to his advantage. But that doesn’t change the facts. Only 20% of Iranians are supporting this regime. And that’s because they are complete fanatics and/or thieves who do not want to give up their economic privileges.
 
You Know:
 
- Maybe we should simply colonize Mars. I don’t really like the way things are working in this planet