How many miracles needed in the Noah myth?
January 26, 2012 at 5:59 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2012 at 6:05 pm by Doubting Thomas.)
Woohoo! Made it to my 1,000th post, so thought I'd try to make it a good one. I just hope it's not too long.
Been thinking a bit about how stupid it is that people actually believe in the Noah global flood myth. It's just such an incredibly impossible story that nobody should believe it, yet when you debate Christians they usually have to end up invoking miracles from God. The trouble with that is that when you look at how many different miracles had to happen for it to actually be true, then logically God should have done something different and far less convoluted. Let's look at the miracles needed to make the Noah myth become true:
Miracle 1: Noah, without any shipbuilding experience, built a seaworthy vessel completely out of wood larger than any wooden ship ever built. Not only that, by the time God told him to do it, he was a very old man (600 years old!). I don't know how long it took to build wooden ships back when wooden ships were the norm, but I'm sure it took quite a while. Now take someone who never built one before and have them construct the largest vessel ever known to mankind at that point. I think some divine intervention was required to make this successful.
Miracle 2: Noah was able to collect two or seven of every species of animal on earth. I don't know if the story insinuates that Noah himself walked the earth collecting two of every unclean and seven of every clean animal, or else all the animals magically migrated to where he was building the ark. A miracle is needed either way to just get the animals to the ark.
Miracle 3: Noah somehow was able to fit millions of animals into a boat 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. And there had to be enough space for them to have plenty of exercise, not to mention enough space for food for all the animals, and living quarters for Noah & family.
Miracle 4: The entire earth was flooded. That takes a lot of water, more water than is on the earth.
Miracle 5: Noah, his family, and all the animals had to survive the deluge of rain. According to the story, it rained for 40 days & nights, flooding the highest mountains of the earth. That's a lot of water coming down in that short of time. It would have destroyed the ark and everything else on the planet.
Miracle 6: Noah loaded millions of animals onto the ark in one day, which would include putting them in their living space and getting them ready for the boat ride.
Miracle 7: The ark survived the rough seas that would have been present during a global flood. Remember, there's no land and plenty of wind around the planet now with it being all covered with water, so with no land to break up the wind there would have been incredibly huge waves. The ark was 450 feet long, while the longest wooden schooner in history was the Wyoming, also at 450 feet long. It, however, had iron reinforcing which wasn't known around 6000 BCE or whenever the Noah myth was supposed to have taken place. The wooden planks flexed in the seas and it needed constant pumping because sea water would come in between the planks in the hull. Noah's ark doesn't mention anything like this, and pumps probably weren't invented back then. Not to mention that in Genesis 6 God tells Noah to put a huge door in the side of the hull from the first level up to the third level. I don't know how Noah would have waterproofed such a door.
P.S. The Wyoming sank in 1924 in heavy seas with a loss of all hands.
Miracle 8: The animals all survived the trip. There apparently was enough food on board to feed all the animals, even though space would have been at a premium, and there was somehow fresh meat for all the carnivores. Also, animals tend to get frightened when in a strange place and quite a few wild animals, if not most of them, will die in captivity. Being held in a cramped stall on board a leaky, rocking ship for 150 days would be hard enough for a human, let alone an animal.
Miracle 9: There was enough ventilation in the entire ark even though there was only one window one cubit wide by one cubit tall. Animal waste tends to produce methane, which becomes toxic at high levels. One 18" x 18" window would not provide enough ventilation for all the animals, not to mention Noah & family.
Miracle 10: Noah & family were able to care for millions of animals for 150 days while at sea. 8 people, millions of animals. You do the math. Try to figure out when they would have actually had time to get some sleep.
Miracle 11: All the aquatic species somehow survived the flood. Somehow, freshwater fish were able to survive in the ocean. OK, maybe it wasn't as salty as the ocean is now due to being diluted by all the rain water, but in that case then the saltwater fish wouldn't have been able to survive. Not only that, when a flood occurs the water gets filled with a lot of debris and silt. Add to that the fact that the seas were very rough and it's not likely any fish would have survived.
Miracle 12: Somehow, all that water which fell to earth in 40 days just happened to "recede" somewhere. Since an entire planet covered with water wouldn't have any place for all that water to go, you'd have to claim this as a miracle.
Miracle 13: The animals were able to find food once the ark landed. It might be easy to just think that the waters went away, and the earth was a vast garden. In fact, all the plant life would have been destroyed, except maybe for seaweed or kelp. But as far as land-based plants, they could not survive being covered in salty water. Any seeds which would have floated would have absorbed all the salt water and would have been destroyed. Noah would have had to carry lots of different seeds in order to replenish the earth, but what would the herbivores do for food in the meantime while waiting for plants to grow & produce fruit & grain? What would the carnivores have to eat besides the herbivores, of which there would be few? Another miracle has to be invoked.
Miracle 14: All the species of animals were able to find their way to their habitats. Polar bears made it to the Arctic, penguins to the antarctic, koalas, wallabies, and kangaroos made it to Australia, Indian elephants to India and African elephants to Africa. All without leaving traces that they existed elsewhere.
Miracle 15: All the animal species were able to reproduce in enough numbers to repopulate. Normally when an animal species gets down to 7 members, they're considered extinct. Inbreeding would be common, especially with the pairs of unclean animals.
Miracle 16: Noah and his family were able to repopulate the world. Some inbreeding had to go on here, too. And if you accept that this story happened 6,000 years ago, the world's population had to go from just 8 to nearly 7 billion in that short amount of time. That's a lot of baby producing.
Miracle 17: God had to devise a way to make raindrops refract light, which they apparently couldn't do before the flood, so that he could produce the rainbows as a reminder to not flood the world again. As if an all-knowing deity would need such a reminder.
OK, I'm sure I could come up with more, but what's the point? At what point as an all-powerful god do you finally say, "Aw fuck it. This is getting too complicated. I'll just send down a plague and make everyone but Noah and his family die from it. At least that way I can still leave the plants & animals the way they are?" Why make 17 (or more) miracles happen when just one would suffice?
So logically, it's far easier and a lot less complicated to just find a different way for people to die than a global flood. But, of course, an all-powerful and all-knowing deity should have known that he was going to want to kill all the people he made in the first place, and just made them be not so evil.
But that's just the way I'd do it. If I were an all-powerful creator of the universe, I'd put a little more intelligence into his intelligent design.
Been thinking a bit about how stupid it is that people actually believe in the Noah global flood myth. It's just such an incredibly impossible story that nobody should believe it, yet when you debate Christians they usually have to end up invoking miracles from God. The trouble with that is that when you look at how many different miracles had to happen for it to actually be true, then logically God should have done something different and far less convoluted. Let's look at the miracles needed to make the Noah myth become true:
Miracle 1: Noah, without any shipbuilding experience, built a seaworthy vessel completely out of wood larger than any wooden ship ever built. Not only that, by the time God told him to do it, he was a very old man (600 years old!). I don't know how long it took to build wooden ships back when wooden ships were the norm, but I'm sure it took quite a while. Now take someone who never built one before and have them construct the largest vessel ever known to mankind at that point. I think some divine intervention was required to make this successful.
Miracle 2: Noah was able to collect two or seven of every species of animal on earth. I don't know if the story insinuates that Noah himself walked the earth collecting two of every unclean and seven of every clean animal, or else all the animals magically migrated to where he was building the ark. A miracle is needed either way to just get the animals to the ark.
Miracle 3: Noah somehow was able to fit millions of animals into a boat 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. And there had to be enough space for them to have plenty of exercise, not to mention enough space for food for all the animals, and living quarters for Noah & family.
Miracle 4: The entire earth was flooded. That takes a lot of water, more water than is on the earth.
Miracle 5: Noah, his family, and all the animals had to survive the deluge of rain. According to the story, it rained for 40 days & nights, flooding the highest mountains of the earth. That's a lot of water coming down in that short of time. It would have destroyed the ark and everything else on the planet.
Miracle 6: Noah loaded millions of animals onto the ark in one day, which would include putting them in their living space and getting them ready for the boat ride.
Miracle 7: The ark survived the rough seas that would have been present during a global flood. Remember, there's no land and plenty of wind around the planet now with it being all covered with water, so with no land to break up the wind there would have been incredibly huge waves. The ark was 450 feet long, while the longest wooden schooner in history was the Wyoming, also at 450 feet long. It, however, had iron reinforcing which wasn't known around 6000 BCE or whenever the Noah myth was supposed to have taken place. The wooden planks flexed in the seas and it needed constant pumping because sea water would come in between the planks in the hull. Noah's ark doesn't mention anything like this, and pumps probably weren't invented back then. Not to mention that in Genesis 6 God tells Noah to put a huge door in the side of the hull from the first level up to the third level. I don't know how Noah would have waterproofed such a door.
P.S. The Wyoming sank in 1924 in heavy seas with a loss of all hands.
Miracle 8: The animals all survived the trip. There apparently was enough food on board to feed all the animals, even though space would have been at a premium, and there was somehow fresh meat for all the carnivores. Also, animals tend to get frightened when in a strange place and quite a few wild animals, if not most of them, will die in captivity. Being held in a cramped stall on board a leaky, rocking ship for 150 days would be hard enough for a human, let alone an animal.
Miracle 9: There was enough ventilation in the entire ark even though there was only one window one cubit wide by one cubit tall. Animal waste tends to produce methane, which becomes toxic at high levels. One 18" x 18" window would not provide enough ventilation for all the animals, not to mention Noah & family.
Miracle 10: Noah & family were able to care for millions of animals for 150 days while at sea. 8 people, millions of animals. You do the math. Try to figure out when they would have actually had time to get some sleep.
Miracle 11: All the aquatic species somehow survived the flood. Somehow, freshwater fish were able to survive in the ocean. OK, maybe it wasn't as salty as the ocean is now due to being diluted by all the rain water, but in that case then the saltwater fish wouldn't have been able to survive. Not only that, when a flood occurs the water gets filled with a lot of debris and silt. Add to that the fact that the seas were very rough and it's not likely any fish would have survived.
Miracle 12: Somehow, all that water which fell to earth in 40 days just happened to "recede" somewhere. Since an entire planet covered with water wouldn't have any place for all that water to go, you'd have to claim this as a miracle.
Miracle 13: The animals were able to find food once the ark landed. It might be easy to just think that the waters went away, and the earth was a vast garden. In fact, all the plant life would have been destroyed, except maybe for seaweed or kelp. But as far as land-based plants, they could not survive being covered in salty water. Any seeds which would have floated would have absorbed all the salt water and would have been destroyed. Noah would have had to carry lots of different seeds in order to replenish the earth, but what would the herbivores do for food in the meantime while waiting for plants to grow & produce fruit & grain? What would the carnivores have to eat besides the herbivores, of which there would be few? Another miracle has to be invoked.
Miracle 14: All the species of animals were able to find their way to their habitats. Polar bears made it to the Arctic, penguins to the antarctic, koalas, wallabies, and kangaroos made it to Australia, Indian elephants to India and African elephants to Africa. All without leaving traces that they existed elsewhere.
Miracle 15: All the animal species were able to reproduce in enough numbers to repopulate. Normally when an animal species gets down to 7 members, they're considered extinct. Inbreeding would be common, especially with the pairs of unclean animals.
Miracle 16: Noah and his family were able to repopulate the world. Some inbreeding had to go on here, too. And if you accept that this story happened 6,000 years ago, the world's population had to go from just 8 to nearly 7 billion in that short amount of time. That's a lot of baby producing.
Miracle 17: God had to devise a way to make raindrops refract light, which they apparently couldn't do before the flood, so that he could produce the rainbows as a reminder to not flood the world again. As if an all-knowing deity would need such a reminder.
OK, I'm sure I could come up with more, but what's the point? At what point as an all-powerful god do you finally say, "Aw fuck it. This is getting too complicated. I'll just send down a plague and make everyone but Noah and his family die from it. At least that way I can still leave the plants & animals the way they are?" Why make 17 (or more) miracles happen when just one would suffice?
So logically, it's far easier and a lot less complicated to just find a different way for people to die than a global flood. But, of course, an all-powerful and all-knowing deity should have known that he was going to want to kill all the people he made in the first place, and just made them be not so evil.
But that's just the way I'd do it. If I were an all-powerful creator of the universe, I'd put a little more intelligence into his intelligent design.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
