RE: Do animals have free Will?
February 9, 2012 at 11:16 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2012 at 11:29 pm by Godscreated.)
(February 9, 2012 at 8:36 pm)padraic Wrote: Assuming free will exists,which I do not assume,at least to the extent we like to think. My position is that IF there is such a thing as free will,it is extremely limited. My perception is that most of the apparent decisions we make are predetermined by instinct,habit, previous experience and genetics.
Accepting free will in humans as a given for the sake of argument:
If free includes problem solving,then some other animals can be said to have free will to some degree. Dolphins,some apes and recently some birds,such as rooks have been observed solving complex problems. EG rooks have been observed making a tool to make a tool. I have actually seen a piping shrike (magpie) with a broken beak use a twig to dig for worms.
Some animals are also self aware.EG dolphins and some apes can recognise their image in a mirror as themselves. Virtually no other animals have that ability,as far as I'm aware.
However,I think behaviour such as protecting the young,even compassion to one's own are instinctive behaviours. That a dog's loyalty is the instinctive behaviour of a pack animal to its perceived pack.
I have no time for apologist special pleading and self-serving definitions,which try to make humans extraordinary. We are not extraordinary,we are merely animals with delusion of grandeur as far as I can see so far.
Dogs can recognize themselves.
(February 9, 2012 at 6:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote: .
Our instinct is to not put our hands in the fire (that is, once we've felt it (soft fascination)). You've never seen an animal put itself in harms way to defend it's fellows, "overriding an instinct"? Do you want me to bury you in youtube links or can you save us both the time and trouble and acknowledge that this is not a uniquely human action? Is it not instinctual to protect members of your group, or members of your species from other species or members of other groups (or even your own?)
Yes, other animals will work hard at defending their young and those that belong to a pack, troop, herd and ect., but not those they do not know as part of their group, where humans will defend a stranger. Just like chimps, wolves will kill or accept a strange wolf, either way they see it as protecting the pack.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
