(February 21, 2012 at 11:46 am)Voltair Wrote: It is a weird catch 22 for me but perhaps I am being unfair as I used to be religious and now that I am not I still have morality. However I also know that many people even inside of religion aren't the most moral so without any religion how much worse would they be? I was just wondering what your guys thoughts were on this.
There's no question at all that some people are being restrained by religion from doing evil things. In fact, there are many Christians who stupidly use this as an argument for their religion. They say, "Well, if there was no God why should I care? I could go out and murder, steal and rape all I want"
This suggests that this is what they'd choose to do on their own if there was no God. That's pretty sad.
So are the Christians who are in heaven like that? Are they just murders, rapists, and thieves, restraining themselves for all of eternity just to win the prize of eternal life and avoid eternal punishment?
That would be both sad, and disgusting.
Like you, I realized that my moral values would not change if I were not religious. In fact, I actually have higher moral values without the religion. The religion itself was forcing me to have immoral values. Like supporting the fact that biblical God created, condones and supports male-chauvinism via his curse on Eve during the fall from grace in Genesis 3:16.
There are also many other immoral concepts condoned by this religion that I totally disagree with.
So the religion was actually bringing my moral values down and contaminating something that could be much better.
I haven't become a complete secular atheist after having trashed the Hebrew hate cult. I still believe in a mystical spiritual essence to the world at least along the lines of Taoism and some other forms of Mystical philosophies. Those spiritual philosophies do not require that I become an immoral person to believe in them.
But you are right, many Christians themselves confess that without their belief in the Hebrew God they would do horrible despicable things. So clearly many Christians have no desire to be a moral person on their own if they did not believe in the Hebrew God.
As far as trusting humans in general. I don't. There are good humans, and humans who apparently like to do hateful hurtful things. It doesn't require religion to make a person nasty.
However, when religious people do nasty things in the name of a God that's truly disgusting and Christians are infamous for that throughout history.
Stephen Weinberg said it very elegantly, "There are good people and there are bad people, but it takes religion to make good people do bad things".
And that is so true!
In fact, this is one reason why I flushed the hateful Hebrew mythology down the toilet. To continue to support it would require that I, as a good person, support bad things. (i.e. the hateful lies of the Hebrew Hate Cult)
Just supporting that hateful religion is a bad thing. So why should I as a good person lower myself to do such a disgusting thing?
Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
