(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: (either in a temporal or supra-temporal sense). IT alsoi has an end even if that end is in temporal (or supra-temporal) motion (extending).Now you are simply continuing with the same nonsense.
No, I'm not ... it's your metaphysics that is nonsense!
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: None of this is part of the orthodox Christian definition of creation. Creation does not entail temporality.
You think I give a shit?
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: You are welcome to entertain your own definitions if you want to. But I'm not going to waste my time discussing them, because they have nothing to do with what I believe.
So you're a chicken ... cluck, cluck, cluck!
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: You have NOT offered a single validatable piece of evidence for your god or any other. Created means it started, simple as that ...Started? It certainly does not.
Yes it does ... if something is created it means it has to have been started.
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: Created means anything which is not God and therefore contingent upon God
But god cannot have created the multiverse because, by definition,. The multiverse pre-existed everything including your stupid god!
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: It does not mean anything which is "started".
Yes it does ... see above.
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: if it started it has a beginning, a point which can be identified that the creation event occurred.No. That is temporal creation, which is a much narrower term.
No it's not, it's a term that can be applied in an abstract sense and I have made it clear I am referring to a supra-temporal concept.
(August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: No it's not ... it is relevant because the multiverse, having always existed, directly opposes your claim to the ever-exiting god.How does it "oppose" my claim of an "ever-existing" God, which is not even my claim?
If you claim your god created the universe/multiverse then you MUST be claiming it "pre-existed" it ... it is implicit in your argument. Also, if you god didn't always exist, then what created it? That's an argument that is valid even with out the if ... who or what created your god?
Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
