Do you believe in free will?

[The Grand Nudger]

Actually, Apo, I think your "point" these past few posts was that I was incorrect, misinformed, ignorant, incompetent, handwaving, boasting of evidence we didn't have, etc.....turns out I wasn't, but I'm glad to see we're back on the rails. I'm sure the diversion gave others time to organize their thoughts very well (and it seems the conversation has been moving forward in our absence). Meanwhile, some of us have been discussing the merits of these ideas as effects, even if we cannot rely on them as objects or things in the manner in which they had been treated traditionally. I'm not sure, btw Genk, why knowledge of the future would automatically become one of the factors which led to a future state, I am immediately reminded of the Greek story of Cassandra. I see many reasons for precluding the notion of it's existence (possibility and actuality are entirely different things, agreed?) one of which being the lack of a specific answer but more importantly, I haven't been able to find even a general answer, but chiefly, that it cannot be demonstrated to exist, and that many of the things attributed to it can be shown to occur elsewhere, through a mechanism and process which would seem to imply the polar opposite of "free will". In the end, if all that is required to point to a free will is to say that we make choices, whatever "we" means, or that we are an agent, whatever "agent" means, and this underpins those things you mentioned, such as responsibility, then that's good enough for me as far as those things are concerned (but only as far as they are concerned). The concept only needs to work as far as our experience here is concerned to be treated as a concept. It is strange though, to see us so desperately attempting to pigeon-hole a preconceived notion like "free will" into a better understanding of what goes into our minds than it was conceived under.

I think Tack, that anytime is a good time for you to hop in, and the best place for you to begin would be by showing the other half of this duality, or the hook that allows it to interface with the demonstrated half, or both.