[quote='mediamogul' pid='258846' dateline='1332304420']
[quote]So here I have shown the original quote where you state that your belief in the bible is not a matter of evidence. You claim, read above, it is a matter of faith.[/quote]Hello Humility my old friend, nice to see you again at another one of my foolish mistakes. So allow me to fix this for you: " IT Is a Matter of Faith in the evidence provided by the full fillment of the promises left in scripture." Ta Daa now it reads consistently!
[quote]Then when we started talking about how you know the bible is true you started talking about "evidence" but never listed what the evidence was. [/quote]Because no one asked.
[quote]You simply continued with the circular bible argument, which we have all heard a million times.[/quote]Maybe because you have never explored beyond what it is you think you know of Christianity. the last comment was a perfect example.
[quote]Then you stated that no other religions make the claim your book makes (while denying that no other monotheistic religions claim a 'personal' relationship with god). Finally you have stated that you have "evidence" by what scripture promised you but have yet to actually list anything that could be considered actual scientifically verifiable evidence. [/quote]
Again have you asked for said scripture? Many of you see posted scripture as an affront to your intelligence demanding that we predigest everything in the bible for you. (I assume it is because you find it easier to attack when someone gives a personal interpretation, Perhaps you are relying on the idea that we have taken it from a commentary we do not completely understand. Plus as a last resort you can always demand the scripture if someone gets too familair) either way I found that my experience here and places like this, go much easier if the person I write to knows He is writing to me rather than a list of books and numbers. That said know i am very well versed and can given you all the book Chapter and verse you ask for. just say the word, or rather ask of me what it is you wish to see and I will happily comply.
[quote]That about catches us up. What then is this undeniable evidence that you have, in such a cloak and dagger way, failed to mention up until this point? You'd think that would be something you would state right up front. So please enlighten us.
[/quote]
Ahhh I was waiting for this. OK so here goes
The whole thing boils down to just a few verses:
We start in Luke 11:
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
Do you know what we are supposed to be Asking Seeking Knocking for?
Our own personal Measure of the Holy Spirit. (As mention by the last line of this passage) Meaning We literally have a small piece of God indwell us. We ask in prayer, We seek in the bible, Church, and discussions like this one, we knock by Repeating this process UNTIL we get what we have been asking and seeking after (A measure of the Holy Spirit)
What does this mean? or How do we know we have apart of God living in us? We goto Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
At first glance one may say he can experience any of these attributes on his own. In truth the actual experiencing of these attributes are not what is being show cased, but the quality and duration of these attributes in the life of the believer. Meaning these are not passing feelings. These attributes become your defining characteristics. In short your demeanor changes to reflect the modest attributes or "Spiritual Fruit."
Once we develop Spiritual Fruit and are faithful to them we will soon receive Spiritual gifts. do you want to hear of the Gifts of the Spirit?
There is a list compiled from several different places. Not really pertainate to this discussion,(If so just ask) for the fact we can and still do obtain Spiritual fruit is enough to prove the existence of God.
I know for you this may seem trivial, but i assure you it is not. For literally A piece of God becomes apart of your life, and you over flow with His Spiritual fruit. Given enough time these fruit mature into gifts, allowing some to teach, some to preach, some to pray and praise. If one is faithful to what He has been given then Gifts translate into a deep personal relationship with God. Where one has access through the portion of the Holy Spirit that is with in him, to God Himself. This is the "proof" of God believers Have. They literally Carry God with in themselves. (Not a bunch of granted wishes) No other religion offers this.
For example, If you could ask God anything what would it be? What if he gave you an answer, and He said ask as many questions as you like and in turn you got ALL your answers.. All of them. then what would you do? Tell you what i would do, i would go on a Atheist website and get their questions because they are alot sharper and more "real" than my questions would be, and then take these questions to God to see what he has to say about them.
My next question is what does one do when the atheist forum runs out of legitimate questions???
[quote]So here I have shown the original quote where you state that your belief in the bible is not a matter of evidence. You claim, read above, it is a matter of faith.[/quote]Hello Humility my old friend, nice to see you again at another one of my foolish mistakes. So allow me to fix this for you: " IT Is a Matter of Faith in the evidence provided by the full fillment of the promises left in scripture." Ta Daa now it reads consistently!
[quote]Then when we started talking about how you know the bible is true you started talking about "evidence" but never listed what the evidence was. [/quote]Because no one asked.
[quote]You simply continued with the circular bible argument, which we have all heard a million times.[/quote]Maybe because you have never explored beyond what it is you think you know of Christianity. the last comment was a perfect example.
[quote]Then you stated that no other religions make the claim your book makes (while denying that no other monotheistic religions claim a 'personal' relationship with god). Finally you have stated that you have "evidence" by what scripture promised you but have yet to actually list anything that could be considered actual scientifically verifiable evidence. [/quote]
Again have you asked for said scripture? Many of you see posted scripture as an affront to your intelligence demanding that we predigest everything in the bible for you. (I assume it is because you find it easier to attack when someone gives a personal interpretation, Perhaps you are relying on the idea that we have taken it from a commentary we do not completely understand. Plus as a last resort you can always demand the scripture if someone gets too familair) either way I found that my experience here and places like this, go much easier if the person I write to knows He is writing to me rather than a list of books and numbers. That said know i am very well versed and can given you all the book Chapter and verse you ask for. just say the word, or rather ask of me what it is you wish to see and I will happily comply.
[quote]That about catches us up. What then is this undeniable evidence that you have, in such a cloak and dagger way, failed to mention up until this point? You'd think that would be something you would state right up front. So please enlighten us.
[/quote]Ahhh I was waiting for this. OK so here goes
The whole thing boils down to just a few verses:
We start in Luke 11:
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
Do you know what we are supposed to be Asking Seeking Knocking for?
Our own personal Measure of the Holy Spirit. (As mention by the last line of this passage) Meaning We literally have a small piece of God indwell us. We ask in prayer, We seek in the bible, Church, and discussions like this one, we knock by Repeating this process UNTIL we get what we have been asking and seeking after (A measure of the Holy Spirit)
What does this mean? or How do we know we have apart of God living in us? We goto Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
At first glance one may say he can experience any of these attributes on his own. In truth the actual experiencing of these attributes are not what is being show cased, but the quality and duration of these attributes in the life of the believer. Meaning these are not passing feelings. These attributes become your defining characteristics. In short your demeanor changes to reflect the modest attributes or "Spiritual Fruit."
Once we develop Spiritual Fruit and are faithful to them we will soon receive Spiritual gifts. do you want to hear of the Gifts of the Spirit?
There is a list compiled from several different places. Not really pertainate to this discussion,(If so just ask) for the fact we can and still do obtain Spiritual fruit is enough to prove the existence of God.
I know for you this may seem trivial, but i assure you it is not. For literally A piece of God becomes apart of your life, and you over flow with His Spiritual fruit. Given enough time these fruit mature into gifts, allowing some to teach, some to preach, some to pray and praise. If one is faithful to what He has been given then Gifts translate into a deep personal relationship with God. Where one has access through the portion of the Holy Spirit that is with in him, to God Himself. This is the "proof" of God believers Have. They literally Carry God with in themselves. (Not a bunch of granted wishes) No other religion offers this.
For example, If you could ask God anything what would it be? What if he gave you an answer, and He said ask as many questions as you like and in turn you got ALL your answers.. All of them. then what would you do? Tell you what i would do, i would go on a Atheist website and get their questions because they are alot sharper and more "real" than my questions would be, and then take these questions to God to see what he has to say about them.
My next question is what does one do when the atheist forum runs out of legitimate questions???
