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The Bible: A Moral book?!
#56
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?!
(April 12, 2012 at 6:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: As I see it, if we say our moral standard is based on human nature, then the next question is 'What is the basis of human nature?' If we then say, human nature is a product of evolution, then how does the amoral process of evolution produce a moral standard? The response is usually that the resulting 'moral sense' has helped us survive. But ultimately survival is an on-going struggle for procreative dominance, both between different species and between individuals of the same species. Right and wrong have no place in that process, only power does. One could take a different approach and say that humans evolved to become rational creatures and as a result are able to reason about morality. True enough, except that implies something about which we can reason that is not part of the evolutionary process.

Firstly, even by your criteria, right and wrong would have a place in the evolutionary process. Anything that enhances the procreative dominance would be right and anything that detracts from it would be wrong. However, that is a very simplistic understanding of the evolutionary process. While overall it may be seen as struggle for procreative dominance, it can be accomplished through many mechanisms. Survival of the tribe, flourishing of the individual within the tribe, survival through cooperation, dominance through warfare - all could be mechanisms geared towards the same ultimate purpose, but each gives rise to its separate morality.

If you need an example, look at the different types of animal moralities. Ants are extremely altruistic, since they very often sacrifice themselves to protect the colony. By contrast, chimps have hierarchical power structure within a tribe. It is only in humans that the moral sense is made much more sophisticated by the rational mind, which is also a product of evolution.
(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Some definitions first.

So, when you say definitions, you mean redefinitions. Let's stick to the actual definitions.

(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Sin is anything not in the expressed will of God.

Wrong. A sin is an act that violates a known moral rule.

(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Morality is the standard of man. or man's effort to meet the righteousness of God with the sin he is willing to live with, incorporated into that standard.

Wrong. Morality is code of conduct put forward by a society or accepted by an individual for his own behavior.

(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Righteousness is the sinless standard of God.

Wrong. Righteousness is the quality or state of being just or rightful.

(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Righteousness says it is never OK to lie.

Wrong. That would depend on the moral code by which right and wrong are defined.


(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Morality says it is OK to lie to save the life of your friends.

Again, that would depend on your moral code.

(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: We can not live a perfect life (without sin) so that means our best efforts will result in a moral life.

Wrong. Depending on the moral code, we can live a sinless life. It still might not be perfect.


(April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Because the Righteous standard of God is found in the bible it is best to derive one's morality from God's perfect standard.

Finally, something relevant. So, if bible is taken as the source of moral codes, then god fails his own test several times over.
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Messages In This Thread
The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - August 31, 2009 at 11:06 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by jonathanwithaj - August 31, 2009 at 11:57 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - August 31, 2009 at 12:10 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Minimalist - August 31, 2009 at 12:24 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - August 31, 2009 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - August 31, 2009 at 12:57 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - August 31, 2009 at 1:25 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - August 31, 2009 at 1:41 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - August 31, 2009 at 2:39 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 4:22 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 4:40 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - August 31, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - August 31, 2009 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Kyuuketsuki - August 31, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Eilonnwy - August 31, 2009 at 6:51 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by padraic - August 31, 2009 at 7:54 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - August 31, 2009 at 11:07 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by jonathanwithaj - September 1, 2009 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Demonaura - September 1, 2009 at 3:04 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Kyuuketsuki - September 1, 2009 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 5:39 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Kyuuketsuki - September 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - September 1, 2009 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - September 1, 2009 at 7:27 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 8:27 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - September 1, 2009 at 3:57 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - September 1, 2009 at 5:41 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 1, 2009 at 5:52 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - September 1, 2009 at 5:55 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Edwardo Piet - September 1, 2009 at 10:09 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - September 2, 2009 at 2:08 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by fr0d0 - September 2, 2009 at 3:52 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - September 3, 2009 at 4:12 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Greatest I am - April 12, 2012 at 3:34 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Minimalist - April 12, 2012 at 5:00 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Violet - April 12, 2012 at 6:29 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Paul the Human - April 12, 2012 at 6:46 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 7:00 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Greatest I am - January 14, 2013 at 8:25 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 7:24 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Godschild - April 13, 2012 at 12:09 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Greatest I am - April 13, 2012 at 7:25 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Paul the Human - April 12, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 7:08 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Paul the Human - April 12, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Paul the Human - April 12, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by NoMoreFaith - April 12, 2012 at 7:42 pm
The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 7:31 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Paul the Human - April 12, 2012 at 7:59 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 7:46 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 8:31 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 8:38 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 9:07 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 9:47 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 9:57 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 9:51 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Mystical - January 13, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Drich - January 14, 2013 at 1:04 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Mystical - January 14, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Drich - January 14, 2013 at 1:44 am
RE: The Bible: A Moral book?! - by Ryantology - January 14, 2013 at 1:12 am

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