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The Truth; You Exist
#4
RE: The Truth; You Exist
(April 19, 2012 at 8:40 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Evolution and natural selection don’t care about what the truth is. We did not evolve to be able to comprehend what the truth is, but merely have the right tools just for survival. This raises the question of whether we are capable of actually knowing the truth. This can be expressed as the probability that (R | N&E) is true, which seems quite low. Therefore we are almost inclined to accept that our cognitive faculties don’t have the capabilities of knowing the truth.

From a perspective of pure reasoning, we can in fact demonstrate that our cognitive faculties are indeed capable of comprehending the truth, regardless of N&E. We can show this by the hypothetical case that if something, deemed X, is X and can also be non-X, then the truth does not exist. This is so because one cannot state the truth about the nature of X. This line of reasoning refutes itself as it shows that the argument itself is found to be true. Therefore we have shown that a) the truth exists and b) one derived this conclusion through one’s cognitive faculties. Therefore, one can comprehend the truth.

I think we are in agreement upto this point. While we can know the truth, its not necessary that we always do know the truth.

(April 19, 2012 at 8:40 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Something to realise is that although we are able to comprehend the truth, this doesn’t necessarily mean we know that we actually know the truth. For example, let’s assume that the sun has just imploded. My cognitive faculties would tell me that the sun is actually still there because the light hasn’t reached my eyes. Therefore, I don’t have sufficient information to be able to know that the sun has just imploded. Therefore, I don’t know that I don’t know the truth. I know only of the apparent truth. So, if our ability to know that we definitely know the truth is impaired by the information we receive, what can be said about our entire experience of reality? How much do we really know that is actually true? This throws into question one’s ability to know what we know is actually true.

Rene Descartes became aware of this problem and therefore started questioning his very own existence. He realised that by default there is one thing that he knew for certain to be true beyond doubt. It was in fact, his existence; ‘I think, therefore I am’. He realised that the very fact that he was able to think about whether he existed or not must mean he exists. This serves as the starting point of what one knows to be 100% true. As for the rest of reality, it seems we are at the mercy of the universe.

While I agree with most of it, I'd question this one "our ability to know that we definitely know the truth is impaired by the information we receive".

I think you'd agree that the information we get correctly corresponds to the state of things as they actually were when it was created. That is, 8 minutes ago, the sun actually was how we are perceiving it now. So, while there may be delay in transmission, alterations in the information on its way (such a the sun is not actually yellow) and sometimes problems in perception, we still can mostly trust them.

But this does not mean that we are at the mercy of the universe because we can constantly keep checking the new information against the past one. We know that by its nature, reality doesn't contradict itself. So, once we have learned about the nature of an entity and we see that the information we are receiving now contradicts it, we do not accept it automatically, we check it against previous knowledge to correct either of them.

For example (and because the 8 minute gap is too short), suppose all humans have left the earth and are now inhabiting a planet 5000 light years away. Suppose they then observe the sun and see that, according to their perspective, the earth is still intact. By their previous observations, they know a few facts - that the earth would be destroyed in that phase and the sun is actually 5000 light years away. Now, because they are aware of the time delay in information, they can correctly state the current state of the earth - non-existent. Thus, our knowledge of reality is not completely at the mercy of universe.


(April 19, 2012 at 9:39 am)FallentoReason Wrote: I'm not sure if we're agreeing completely or completely disagreeing here. I'll rephrase what I meant by the sun imploding:

The sun just imploded. Tell me, what do you observe right now? The truth about the sun 8 minutes late. For the next 8 minutes you will be telling me the false statement that the sun imploded, without knowing it until you observe it. Therefore, we cannot know for sure the state of the sun instantaneously because our observations were true 8 minutes ago.

If the sun imploded right now and right now I see it and unimploded, I would be making a false statement for the next 8 minutes that the sun is just fine. However, knowledge about the 8 minute delay in leading to outdated information as well as any other perceptions regarding an imminent implosion, may allow me to correctly state "the sun has imploded", inspite of the current observation to the contrary.
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Messages In This Thread
The Truth; You Exist - by FallentoReason - April 19, 2012 at 8:40 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by NoMoreFaith - April 19, 2012 at 9:17 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by FallentoReason - April 19, 2012 at 9:39 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by genkaus - April 19, 2012 at 11:50 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by Welsh cake - April 19, 2012 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by FallentoReason - April 19, 2012 at 8:58 pm
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by genkaus - April 20, 2012 at 3:04 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2012 at 9:51 pm
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by FallentoReason - April 19, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by The Grand Nudger - April 20, 2012 at 12:19 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by FallentoReason - April 20, 2012 at 5:17 am
RE: The Truth; You Exist - by genkaus - April 20, 2012 at 7:00 am

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