Pascal's Wager and the Selfishness of a "Good God"

[sarah888]

It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city.
Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D. " Harry V Martin"

Sarah

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The ancient historical record provides examples of writers, philosophers and historians who lived during or not long after the time Jesus is believed to have lived and who testify to the fact that he was a real person. We will look at what some of these people have said.

Cornelius Tacitus
Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus’ death in A.D.14 to Nero’s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero’s death and finish with Domitian’s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero’s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus’ surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus’ or Christ’s death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record.


A little about the historic Jesus

Sarah

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"message from mr. Darwin "In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an Atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God” – Letters of Charles Darwin "

Sarah

This means nothing to me. Care to explain the point your trying to make?

Yes, there are no Atheist in fox-holes. Everyone cries out for GOD at somepoint in their life. We have no reason for being here if there is no God. Everything in life has a meaning and a purpose along with reasoning. To simply state "I dont know why we are here is not enough, it seems null and invalid for us as humans to just simply exsist.

Sarah

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As an Atheist your beliefs are based upon Evidence that is based upon physical measurement of some kind. It does not refer to evidence that only has been personally observed by every individual nor is it only of a visible nature.. So, any atheist who denies the possible existence of God violates his own worldview.

Ever read my signature. Its very apt.

Private self-authenticating evidence is useless because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it.

But essentially, you're right, I do not accept invisible, undetectable, internal convictions as evidence.

You simply deny history, you exclude a man known as Jesus of Nazereth..

So where are the contemporary accounts of his life. I don't deny history, but it is only sensible that documents should account for a major historical figure.

The bible, is not a contemporary account, its the books of the church that sprung up decades after that time, nothing more.

This is one of the problems with the story. We have no writings from the days of Jesus himself. Jesus never wrote anything, nor do we have any contemporary accounts of his life or death. There are no court records, official diaries, or newspaper accounts that might provide firsthand information. Nor are there any eyewitnesses whose reports were preserved unvarnished. Even though they may contain earlier sources or oral traditions, all the Gospels come from later times. Discerning which material is early and which is late becomes an important task. In fact, the earliest writings that survive are the genuine letters of Paul. They were written some twenty to thirty years after the death of Jesus. Yet Paul was not a follower of Jesus during his lifetime; nor does he ever claim to have seen Jesus during his ministry.

You claim I deny history, then you don't know how historians verify sources for claims.
For instance, Apollonius of Tyana lived at the same time as Jesus, contemporary accounts all over the place, and he was just a philosopher, not "the son of god".

I'm not trying to offend you, simply point out, that your claims are baseless. Believe whatever you like, but ignorance and lying are quite distasteful, which is exactly what you are doing when you call these things fact.

"Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

Thats not what Hebrews 11:3 says thou is it.
Hebrews 11:3 says "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
It implies nothing about particles indiscernible to our eyes, it merely states God created ex nihilo, from nothing and believers take that on faith alone. In fact in context, a statement about particles would be insanely non-sequitor. Hebrews is talking about what faith is, faith that Gods Word made things from nothing.

Let's stick your interpreted "quote" in context.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
This is what the ancients were commended for.
Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes
By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

Nope, batshit insane non-sequitor.

In short, you're either lying or ignorant (I mean that literally not offensively), and copy/pasting things without looking at the basis for what you say, even when it comes to your own bible.

Oooh, do the spherical earth bit, I never get bored of tearing the factual error in that one either.

I use bold to see better.

That doesn't help as you write it, unless you are only reading your own posts after you post them. Unless you are saying it helps to put [ b ] in front of everything to make it readable.

(BTW I suggest if you have trouble seeing, you increase text size in your browser, pressing CTRL and + together will do that on most browsers)

Hello,


Lucian of Samosata
Lucian was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus’ name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.

Suetonius
Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian’s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ].

Pliny the Younger
Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.

Thallus and Phlegon
Both were ancient historians and both confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified. This parallels what the Bible said happened when Jesus died.

Mara Bar-Serapion
Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.

Sarah , Hope this is ok, I try not to use bold, however I have trouble seeing and Im not so much the computer literate.

thank you